Ex-Player Watch Player watch: Jan Vertonghen

'O Zio · May 1, 2019

fortworthspur said:
or maybe they are. it may turn out he doesnt have a concussion and just fainted from the nasal injury.

As mentioned already there are two issues here:

Whether or not Vertonghen had a concussion in this specific incident
Whether or not the general protocol/practice in football when dealing with potential concussions is up to modern standards

The fact that in the end it might turn out that Verts doesn't have a concussion doesn't detract from the fact that the assessment/protocols that are in place are frighteningly inadequate. Every time there's an injury like this it just highlights how shambolic and ambiguous the current rules are IMO and merely saying "well player XYZ turned out not to have a concussion so it was fine" is somewhat missing the point

If it were up to me the decision should be in the hands of an independent medical team, not the team's own doctors, and there would be a temporary, reversable substitution allowed like in rugby so that there wasn't such a mad rush to get the screening over with.

'O Zio · May 1, 2019

fluffybunnyuk said:
cue waiting for the first football team trying to exploit this to get a *free* sub on the pitch. "ref, honest, he passed out" , "we need to get him off for a 45 minute assessment", "lets put our tactical change on instead".

Am i being too cynical? I fully support the idea of rolling subs, as this issue is too important when player safety is concerned. But there also needs to be heavy hand smacking if anyone tries to exploit it.

It's definitely something they'd have to keep an eye on but to be honest the potential for a slight bit of gamesmanship is a small price to pay to potentially save lives. People may say it's overly dramatic to talk about players dying but it's a genuine danger and surely we can all agree that it shouldn't have to take a player dying for the game to take preventative measures?

montylynch · May 1, 2019

Looks to me like his body went into shock.

Similar to Hypoxic Convulsions or Reflex Anoxic Seizures, the body goes into shock and shuts down. I've had a couple in the past, once when i was umpiring and got hit flush on the kneecap with the ball. I limped off, sat down, went into shock, then passed out. Half hour later i felt fine, although my kneecap didn't. Second time i got cramp in both legs whilst in bed, the pain was unreal, I went into shock and passed out. Again, half hour later i was up and about, feeling like my legs had run 12 marathons.

Certainly didn't look pretty, he was probably so full of adrenalin but the incident drained him and his body cramped up.

SandroClegane · May 1, 2019

yankspurs said:
Football is a joke when it comes to concussions. Fucking calamitous. However, the ruling bodies dont make the decisions to put a clearly concussed players back on the pitch? The medical teams do. This shit happens all the time. Everyone blames protocols for letting them back on yet it’s fucking clear as day these players are groggy. It’s the medical teams fault. They fail at their jobs and fall back on blaming protocol. They just get lucky the players dont usually collapse immediately so they get away with it. Not this time. There needs to be a neurologist on every sideline. If football doesnt mandate it, the clubs should start employing them anyway.

The club should be taking a hard look at the medical staff and a hard look at the fitness staff. Both of which have hardly shined this year. Last night was a joke.

Thank god you're not a fucking doctor. Imagine the gong show your knee jerk diagnostics would be...

Dillspur · May 1, 2019

yankspurs said:
Football is a joke when it comes to concussions. Fucking calamitous. However, the ruling bodies dont make the decisions to put a clearly concussed players back on the pitch? The medical teams do. This shit happens all the time. Everyone blames protocols for letting them back on yet it’s fucking clear as day these players are groggy. It’s the medical teams fault. They fail at their jobs and fall back on blaming protocol. They just get lucky the players dont usually collapse immediately so they get away with it. Not this time. There needs to be a neurologist on every sideline. If football doesnt mandate it, the clubs should start employing them anyway.

The club should be taking a hard look at the medical staff and a hard look at the fitness staff. Both of which have hardly shined this year. Last night was a joke.

The medical team followed the protocol. Not only that but they were treating him on the field, he got up walked round to the dugout with the medical team (I didn't see him staggering), got changed into a new shirt and shorts in the tunnel, there must have been 6-8 minutes before he got back onto the field, I'm not entirely sure that the medical team can be 100% at fault and I'm not sure the the concussion protocol is 100% at fault.

Someone can take a blow to the head and not show symptoms of concussion for upto 24 hours even after passing that test. What FIFA need to do is allow free subs for head injuries and anyone that takes a blow has to come off.

hughy · May 1, 2019

Dillspur said:
The medical team followed the protocol. Not only that but they were treating him on the field, he got up walked round to the dugout with the medical team (I didn't see him staggering), got changed into a new shirt and shorts in the tunnel, there must have been 6-8 minutes before he got back onto the field, I'm not entirely sure that the medical team can be 100% at fault and I'm not sure the the concussion protocol is 100% at fault.

Someone can take a blow to the head and not show symptoms of concussion for upto 24 hours even after passing that test. What FIFA need to do is allow free subs for head injuries and anyone that takes a blow has to come off.

The only problem with this, and one that Talksport touched on briefly, is that there's a fine line in football between a serious injury and someone play-acting to disrupt play/catch their breath. If free substitutions are being handed out what's to stop a team feigning a clash of heads to get an extra sub on?

In what is, quite frankly, a dishonest sport at times, it's not as simple as what you've suggested.

Dillspur · May 1, 2019

hughy said:
The only problem with this, and one that Talksport touched on briefly, is that there's a fine line in football between a serious injury and someone play-acting to disrupt play/catch their breath. If free substitutions are being handed out what's to stop a team feigning a clash of heads to get an extra sub on?

In what is, quite frankly, a dishonest sport at times, it's not as simple as what you've suggested.

I guess you could make it a like for like, defender gets injured a defender comes on. But you would have to hope that the managers and players would respect a rule like this

fortworthspur · May 1, 2019

'O Zio said:
As mentioned already there are two issues here:

Whether or not Vertonghen had a concussion in this specific incident

Whether or not the general protocol/practice in football when dealing with potential concussions is up to modern standards

The fact that in the end it might turn out that Verts doesn't have a concussion doesn't detract from the fact that the assessment/protocols that are in place are frighteningly inadequate. Every time there's an injury like this it just highlights how shambolic and ambiguous the current rules are IMO and merely saying "well player XYZ turned out not to have a concussion so it was fine" is somewhat missing the point

If it were up to me the decision should be in the hands of an independent medical team, not the team's own doctors, and there would be a temporary, reversable substitution allowed like in rugby so that there wasn't such a mad rush to get the screening over with.

I dont know if they are inadequate or not, Im not a brain specialist nor do I know what the current protocol is. but if they are thats a problem with the league and doesnt mean our medical staff should be singled out for criticism.

fortworthspur · May 1, 2019

werty said:
Absolutely. It'll be rare in football to have the body contact type concussion that you'd get in other sports, but if there's any doubt then the player should be removed.

every game would finish with less than 11 players on both sides.

SargeantMeatCurtains · May 1, 2019

My favourite player in my life time. My love for this guy knows no bounds tbh

Tottenhamboy85 · May 1, 2019

gilzeantheking · May 1, 2019

From the OS

https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2019/may/vertonghen-update/

Tottenhamboy85 · May 1, 2019

werty · May 1, 2019

fortworthspur said:
every game would finish with less than 11 players on both sides.

Doubtful. There wasn't a single other big collision in the game last night and the one incident was rare enough.

CoopsieDeadpool · May 1, 2019

Gilzeanking said:
I'm a bit uncomfortable with the criticism of the medical team by people who have no information on what the team saw and what went on at the time .
We have no details so uninformed criticism is premature and unhelpful.

Maybe the 'experts' on here who are slagging off our medical staff should attempt to contact Fabrice Muamba for confirmation of how inept, incompetent & unfit for purpose they are.

fortworthspur · May 1, 2019

coopsieyid said:
Maybe the 'experts' on here who are slagging off our medical staff should attempt to contact Fabrice Muamba for confirmation of how inept, incompetent & unfit for purpose they are.

no shit. I gave you a winner rating but this wins for the week.

CoopsieDeadpool · May 1, 2019

Dillspur said:
Someone can take a blow to the head and not show symptoms of concussion for upto 24 hours even after passing that test. What FIFA need to do is allow free subs for head injuries and anyone that takes a blow has to come off.

I can vouch for that.

Playing one Saturday afternoon, had a crazy clash of heads with an opposing defender (the 'crack' echoed around the pitch). I didn't realise at the time, but apparently we both hit the deck but I simply bounced back up & carried on running to get get the ball. I finished the last 20 minutes of the game but was being constantly questioned by the managers wife about whether I was OK (she was about 10 yards away from the collision when it happened).

We went into the pub for usual after game drinks etc, again being constantly nagged by the managers wife. But I felt fine, not even a headache.

Next day I went swimming with a couple of mates & threw up after about 5 or so minutes of being a dick on the water shoots. My mates said we should go, but I talked them into stopping at a different leisure centre on the way home because I wanted more fucking about on water shoots.

We did stop again, twice, and I threw up at each place. I got back home & my mates told my wife (at the time) what had happened throughout the day. Obviously she knew about the clash of heads from the day before, and instantly marched me up to casualty.

There I underwent the usual tests for concussion & it took all of 2 minutes for the doc to confirm that was part of the issue. Still, he sent me for precautionary X-Rays & 15 minutes later I was rushed from that hospital (West Cornwall Hospital) to a bigger hospital (Treliske Hospital) because I'd fractured my skull.

So yeah, let 24/36 hours pass & things previously unknown can rear their ugly head.

whitesocks · May 1, 2019

coopsieyid said:
Maybe the 'experts' on here who are slagging off our medical staff should attempt to contact Fabrice Muamba for confirmation of how inept, incompetent & unfit for purpose they are.

The main guy was a heart specialist in the crowd, and anyway weren't those key medical staff sacked by AVB when he over-ruled them about Lloris staying on the pitch after a blow to the head? Life is complicated.

Anyway MP has gone up in my estimation 100% as he clearly left this decision to the experts. It is the biggest game of his life, but the player's welfare came first.
And I don't know why the medical staff are under scrutiny here as so far it seems they called it right - there was no concussion.

Of course the issue we cannot talk about is how small knocks to the head can have an accumulative effect. Heading the ball repeatedly is dangerous. Hey look over there - a squirrel.

Tottenhamboy85 · May 2, 2019

dagraham · May 2, 2019

Tottenhamboy85 said:

Sounds like he should be back for Wednesday then.

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