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Levy, ENIC and DC

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southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
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The team looks flogged and exhausted. there is no freshness, energy or creativity on show.. I think this squad is quickly coming towards the end of their life cycle.. Shame, but it is there for all to see.

I think that’s a bit harsh on these players

With our lack of transfer activity, injuries and last Summers World Cup this group does look pretty knackered atm. Need our entire squad fit to have any chance and even then some cannot be rested and rotated!!
 

parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
3,586
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Our owners should hold their heads on shame for their pathetic under investment in the playing squad.

Absolutely not. The stadium should have been ready. That's a huge cost. Once it opens the gave changes. But there are key players and the manager that signed long term contracts.

They need keep the squad together and add to it the summer with starting XI credentials.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
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Absolutely not. The stadium should have been ready. That's a huge cost. Once it opens the gave changes. But there are key players and the manager that signed long term contracts.

They need keep the squad together and add to it the summer with starting XI credentials.
Interesting, what you are advocating suggests that last summer either 1) Levy thought the stadium would be ready in September but chose not to spend a penny or 2) he knew the stadium wouldn’t be ready until at least 2019 but chose to a) not tell any of the fans and b) felt comfortable holding onto our season ticket money. Either way that makes him a **** in my view but I’m interested in which scenario you think applies. Please do share with us.
 
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parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
3,586
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Interesting, what you are advocating suggests that last summer either 1) Levy thought the stadium would be ready in September but chose not to spend a penny or 2) he knew the stadium wouldn’t be ready until at least 2019 but chose to a) not tell any of the fans and b) felt comfortable holding onto our season ticket money. Either way that makes him a **** in my view but I’m interested in which scenario you think applies. Please do share with us.

It was 1. But no sponsor will pay up until stadium is confirmed ready. What will be interesting is how you think the stadium would be paid for without a sugar daddy? Loans still have to be repaid whilst the stadium isn't open.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
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It was 1. But no sponsor will pay up until stadium is confirmed ready. What will be interesting is how you think the stadium would be paid for without a sugar daddy? Loans still have to be repaid whilst the stadium isn't open.
What utter rubbish in all respects. Firstly most stadiums have sponsors lined up before they open, the sponsorship value declines over time as the stadium becomes known by another name, look to the Emirates as a simple example of this. The reason we didn’t get a stadium sponsor is most likely because Levy thinks he can negotiate with multinational companies like he used to with Sunderland and guess what, he can’t. He fired 5 people over 3 years in the role of stadium sponsorship marketing. Were they all so bad or was he just unrealistic ? As to how the stadium is going to be paid for go and have a look at the thread on how much free cash flow the owners have taken out in the last 10 years or in simple terms zero net spend for nearly 10 years because of the stadium. You can’t claim for 10 years before the stadium opens that we can’t spend because we are investing in the stadium and then say we need to scrimp once it opens to pay for it.

No patience for BSoDL, you have nowhere to hide now your idol is exposed as the emperor with no clothes.
 

parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
3,586
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What utter rubbish in all respects. Firstly most stadiums have sponsors lined up before they open, the sponsorship value declines over time as the stadium becomes known by another name, look to the Emirates as a simple example of this. The reason we didn’t get a stadium sponsor is most likely because Levy thinks he can negotiate with multinational companies like he used to with Sunderland and guess what, he can’t. He fired 5 people over 3 years in the role of stadium sponsorship marketing. Were they all so bad or was he just unrealistic ? As to how the stadium is going to be paid for go and have a look at the thread on how much free cash flow the owners have taken out in the last 10 years or in simple terms zero net spend for nearly 10 years because of the stadium. You can’t claim for 10 years before the stadium opens that we can’t spend because we are investing in the stadium and then say we need to scrimp once it opens to pay for it.

No patience for BSoDL, you have nowhere to hide now your idol is exposed as the emperor with no clothes.

You need understand how sponsorship works before you talk about having sponsors lined up. As someone who has arranged sponsorship of events the first clause I put in is I can withdraw my sponsorship if they fail to deliver execution plans by a set deadline. Levy would have had to tell sponsors stadium is not opening on time. Other sponsors supplying services don't care as they are official suppliers and we are playing now. You don't reveal yourself as the sponsor of a stadium that doesn't open on time. You wait as long as you can until you know it's confirmed.

Remember, even the NFL came out with a supporting statement... They had to as they committed to NFL with us publicly but silent since. They will be pissed off
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
6,409
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You need understand how sponsorship works before you talk about having sponsors lined up. As someone who has arranged sponsorship of events the first clause I put in is I can withdraw my sponsorship if they fail to deliver execution plans by a set deadline. Levy would have had to tell sponsors stadium is not opening on time. Other sponsors supplying services don't care as they are official suppliers and we are playing now. You don't reveal yourself as the sponsor of a stadium that doesn't open on time. You wait as long as you can until you know it's confirmed.

Remember, even the NFL came out with a supporting statement... They had to as they committed to NFL with us publicly but silent since. They will be pissed off
Do you seriously think that you sponsoring “an event” qualifies you to talk about stadium sponsorship ? I’m not going to counter with my experience but suffice to say I’ve been involved in stadium financing and for most stadiums the naming rights are an integral part of the financing package and therefore aren’t left until the last minute. They may not be announced until the last minute but the contracts are all done well before the first event.
 

CoopsieDeadpool

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2012
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@am_yisrael_chai , I'm totally understanding your points.

One thing I'll say in response (because I've actually got nothing else) is, it's been widely reported & accepted, even by Arseanal themselves, that they massively under-sold their naming rights & accepted a deal that was,, in reality, too low.

Levy etc aren't perfect, I'll accept that. But maybe the multiple firings etc that you mentioned, and the appearance that we're perhaps struggling to find our own deal, is because we are doing all we can to avoid the same thing Arseanal did.

Possible?
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
6,409
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@am_yisrael_chai , I'm totally understanding your points.

One thing I'll say in response (because I've actually got nothing else) is, it's been widely reported & accepted, even by Arseanal themselves, that they massively under-sold their naming rights & accepted a deal that was,, in reality, too low.

Levy etc aren't perfect, I'll accept that. But maybe the multiple firings etc that you mentioned, and the appearance that we're perhaps struggling to find our own deal, is because we are doing all we can to avoid the same thing Arseanal did.

Possible?
Arsenal were a shambles on the sponsorship front in general getting roughly the same as us while outperforming on the field. They screwed up their stadium sponsorship by combining it with shirt sponsorship. Not a hard mistake to fix and I don’t think that explains our situation.

I think what happened last summer is Levy thought he had HSBC in the bag as their Chairman had been at AIA and signed the deal with us there. This proved to be wrong and there didn’t seem to be a plan B.

I think that right now Levy is desperately trying to get the Oakland Raiders to use NWHL for next season. He thinks if he secures this then the naming rights are way higher. He is right and I really hope this is the path he is taking. However, what frustrates me about ENIC is that they seem to need the deal done before they release any funds for the team rather taking a sensible view on alternate or worst case outcomes and spending accordingly. Of course it could be that as others have speculated that their hands are tied by covenants in the construction loans but then that would really amount to gross negligence on Levy’s part.

I can only speculate on what I think has happened and what I think is currently taking place.
 
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CoopsieDeadpool

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2012
18,257
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Arsenal were a shambles on the sponsorship front in general getting roughly the same as us while outperforming on the field. They screwed up their stadium sponsorship by combining it with shirt sponsorship. Not s hard mistake to fix and I don’t think that explains our situation.

I think what happened last summer is Levy thought he had HSBC in the bag as their Chairman had been at AIA and signed the deal with us there. This proved to be wrong and there didn’t seem to be a plan B.

I think that right now Levy is desperately trying to get the Oakland Raidsre to use NWHL for next season. He thinks if he secures this then the naming rights are way higher. He is right and I really hope this is the pat he is taking. However, what frustrates me about ENIC is that they seem to need the deal done before they release any funds for the team rather taking a sensible view on alternate or worst case outcomes and spending accordingly. Of course it could be that as others have speculated that their hands are tied by covenante in the construction loans but then that would really amount to gross negligence on Levy’s part.

I can only speculate on what I think has happened and what I think is currently taking place.


Lovely, reasoned response. Thank you.
 

parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
3,586
5,861
Do you seriously think that you sponsoring “an event” qualifies you to talk about stadium sponsorship ? I’m not going to counter with my experience but suffice to say I’ve been involved in stadium financing and for most stadiums the naming rights are an integral part of the financing package and therefore aren’t left until the last minute. They may not be announced until the last minute but the contracts are all done well before the first event.

So pretty much agreed that it can be announced at last minute? So what part of the stadium isn't ready doesn't count as last minute? You might be the financing side of the stadium but that doesn't mean you see the sponsorship contract and the clauses.

Sponsoring agreements usually have the same framework because the sponsor has to protect their name, and in essence are the trump card on the financing of buildings and events. It's usually the finance company that allows sponsors to take advantage of a team. The only difference between a building and an event is the cost and the duration for the sponsor. If you are in finance and you don't understand that then thats another problem. But you carry on beating the anti-ENIC drum to fit your views.

And yes, I have arranged sponsorship for football teams before. Two are in the champions League and one is in progress for another champions League team.
 

mattyspurs

It is what it is
Jan 31, 2005
15,280
9,893
I’ve arranged sponsors for my children’s fun run at school...I say sponsors, more friends and family, but it was on a large scale...well, approx 20 however that was a big deal.

I reckon this is on a par with what Levy is doing. I sympathise brother
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
6,409
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So pretty much agreed that it can be announced at last minute? So what part of the stadium isn't ready doesn't count as last minute? You might be the financing side of the stadium but that doesn't mean you see the sponsorship contract and the clauses.

Sponsoring agreements usually have the same framework because the sponsor has to protect their name, and in essence are the trump card on the financing of buildings and events. It's usually the finance company that allows sponsors to take advantage of a team. The only difference between a building and an event is the cost and the duration for the sponsor. If you are in finance and you don't understand that then thats another problem. But you carry on beating the anti-ENIC drum to fit your views.

And yes, I have arranged sponsorship for football teams before. Two are in the champions League and one is in progress for another champions League team.
I'm not disputing that the sponsorship won't be announced until the stadium is ready. However, I am suggesting that the contracts can be done way prior to this and that as a result the financial consequences for the club could be known. I'm not in way way suggesting that the club have a sponsor in the bag as I don't believe they do for the reason I've outlined in my other post.

What you seem to wilfully ignore is that regardless of whether a sponsorship has been agreed or not, the club know a range of prices that they are likely to achieve. To avoid investing because they haven't nailed down the sponsor and therefore got a binding legal commitment to the revenues is to run the company in a totally risk averse and dare I say it amateurish manner.
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
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Interesting, what you are advocating suggests that last summer either 1) Levy thought the stadium would be ready in September but chose not to spend a penny or 2) he knew the stadium wouldn’t be ready until at least 2019 but chose to a) not tell any of the fans and b) felt comfortable holding onto our season ticket money. Either way that makes him a **** in my view but I’m interested in which scenario you think applies. Please do share with us.
It’s neither of those options. It can’t be either, unless Levy has a crystal ball. He didn’t know when it would be completed, nor did anyone else, so rather than count chickens, he kept his powder dry. Conspiracy theorists can, as always, get fucked.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
6,409
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It’s neither of those options. It can’t be either, unless Levy has a crystal ball. He didn’t know when it would be completed, nor did anyone else, so rather than count chickens, he kept his powder dry. Conspiracy theorists can, as always, get fucked.
Sorry but you do realise that last summer the club announced that our first game in the new stadium would be against Liverpool in September. So it really is one of the 2 options I outlined, either they thought at that time, while the window was open, that we were moving in for September or even while telling the world that would be our first game they knew otherwise. No conspiracy theory in play just simple reference to facts created by the club.
 

ComfortablyNumb

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Jun 28, 2011
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Sorry but you do realise that last summer the club announced that our first game in the new stadium would be against Liverpool in September. So it really is one of the 2 options I outlined, either they thought at that time, while the window was open, that we were moving in for September or even while telling the world that would be our first game they knew otherwise. No conspiracy theory in play just simple reference to facts created by the club.
Facts aren’t created, they are, or are not, and it’s a conspiracy theory because you have arbitrarily attached motives to the actors. I can state with certainty that Levy did not know when the stadium would be complete, because for it to be otherwise would break the laws of physics. So why is my option not at least possible?
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
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So why is my option not at least possible?
When you pile in with scant regard for one point of view and indeed telling people they can get fucked, then asking for reason in response isn’t going to get you a fair and considered response is it. That’s my guess anyway.
 
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ComfortablyNumb

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Jun 28, 2011
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When you pile in with scant regard for one point of view and indeed telling people they can get fucked, then asking for reason in response isn’t going to get you a fair and considered response is it. That’s my guess anyway.
Doesn’t answer, or even addresses, my question though, A&C. And I’m not assuming that AYC identifies as Conspiracy Theorist, but if the cap fits...
 
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