The Mauricio Pochettino thread

sausage · Sep 25, 2018

Trix said:
You say Poch didn't want Baldini, but he wanted to go earlier than he did and Levy convinced him to stay on. I don't know Pochs feelings on it, but it was Baldini who wanted out more than we wanted rid.

Poch made a lot of public complains about being the "coach" and not the "manager", and openly commented about having more control, which seemed to conflict quite heavily with Baldini's role. Whilst he might not have specifically "not wanted Baldini" himself, he certainly didn't want a person in his role around the club. Even when it was scaled back with Mitchell, it seems that Poch was still very much against the idea of having someone control transfers.

hakano · Sep 25, 2018

sausage said:
I find it hard to count him as a credible managerial "appointment", as he came in as a caretaker and was given the job until the end of the season. Only real role difference between Pleaty and Sherwood was that Pleat stayed around, and Sherwood seemed to believe he would stick around if he complained hard enough about it. I think he knew Poch was coming in around April time.

Whatever supports your narrative. Let's scrub out Santini too and while we're at it Jol should also be excluded if you're not including Sherwood. Same process just one got fired much earlier.

sausage · Sep 25, 2018

hakano said:
Really? So all of those clubs have inferior players and have won trophies because of their managers, nothing down to their level of on pitch investment? This spin is nothing short of remarkable. I guess if you say it enough then you'll start to believe it.

That's another straw man - your comments suggest you've chosen to take it way out of context rather than in context.

Chelsea, Man Utd and City have all had profoundly different results whereby the team has stayed much the same, with the manager having a profound difference to the team. Chelsea show it every other season.

You can't throw a load of money at a team and expect to win trophies. There's pretty much an example of it every season. If you want a more comparable example, how much did Liverpool spend under Rodgers? It might be easier for you to give a credible example of where a team that doesn't regularly win trophies has suddenly won trophies primarily (as this is your point) by spending significant amounts on players.

hakano said:
Depends what you define as backing? Not selling your top players as being backed then yes you are right. Almost all however will define it as bringing in the players your manager has requested or suitable alternatives.

Who has he requested? Not hearsay or conjecture, but based on the manager's words (or something more credible than rumour).

hakano said:
On the point about breaking transfer records under Poch, why don't you tell all how many times we have broken our transfer record since 2014...........and then compare that to all the other teams in the PL? You may well be surprised.

Compare that to how many teams have simultaneously made significant off-field investments too.

As for the flippancy at "there is absolutely no correlation between money spent and titles won", why can't you provide any sort of credible response? You can't say it's nonsense by saying "because Man City", but show some evidence based on the rest of the league.

I don't mind discussing and listening to different points of view, but a lot of the counter comes across as "I know you are but what am I" types of responses (e.g. Daryl Hannah). Surely a good logic counter would speak for itself in a discussion?

sausage · Sep 25, 2018

hakano said:
Whatever supports your narrative. Let's scrub out Santini too and while we're at it Jol should also be excluded if you're not including Sherwood. Same process just one got fired much earlier.

Seriously, this is fire hazard there's that many straw men on the go. 'Daryl Hannah' said Levy had hire and sacked 12 managers. It's blatently not the case, and I counted Santini, Sherwood and Jol in the 6. It's not a "narrative", it's basic maths.

For the record though, Santini was actively interviewed and chosen but absconded within a few weeks -he's the very epitome of a "pointless answer" to "Name a Spurs Premier League Manager" if you were asking fans of other teams.

sausage · Sep 25, 2018

Wheeler Dealer said:
I think they both did remarkably well , when you consider what we invest in transfers and wages v competitors.. If we invested in the Jan window when Redknapp was at the helm, we could have got close to the very top.

Absolutely, but I guess there were just so many factors on the go - Redknapp's court case was an issue, John Terry, Capello, AVB leaving Chelsea, Chelsea scraping a miracle in the CL etc. Ultimately, Redknapp made short term decisions.

If you changed just one of those things, we would have got CL qualification. I don't think we'd have let Harry leave if AVB hadn't been available (remembering at the time he was just off the back of being the hottest managerial prospect in football), or if we'd have got CL for finishing 4th, and Harry would have no doubt been given a new deal if the England job stuff hadn't cropped up (even with the results imo). Shows just how fine the margins were.

We probably would have been in a good shout if we'd just have kept Pav until the end of the season maybe.

tommyt · Sep 25, 2018

Is this Pochettino giving Levy the benefit of the doubt and one more chance:

Pochettino offered a last thought on the new White Hart Lane, saying when it finally opens his team will no longer have an excuse for not winning trophies. “First of all we need to finish the stadium and build the trophy cabinet,” the 46-year-old said. “And when all is ready and settled is the moment to say ‘we can win now’.

“At [that] moment it will show we are a big team, with big facilities and a venue that is one of the best. There will not be an excuse afterwards. It is no use having a massive house but being unable to put furniture inside. Or if I have a cow and no grass.”

Mauricio Pochettino hopes to be in Spurs’ new stadium before Christmas

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...istmas?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Trix · Sep 26, 2018

sausage said:
Poch made a lot of public complains about being the "coach" and not the "manager", and openly commented about having more control, which seemed to conflict quite heavily with Baldini's role. Whilst he might not have specifically "not wanted Baldini" himself, he certainly didn't want a person in his role around the club. Even when it was scaled back with Mitchell, it seems that Poch was still very much against the idea of having someone control transfers.

Baldini didn't control transfers. I have posted about his role in length in the past, if you want to search it out. I agree that doesn't mean Poch still didn't want someone in his position, but as I say Levy convinced him to stay on an extra 6 months or so after he said he wanted to leave, and that was during Poch's tenure.

Kiedis · Sep 26, 2018

Would be interesting to know more about who does what at the club. Poch seemingly worked 10-12 hour days when he was "just" the head coach. Did he get much more on his plate after his title changed?

Metalhead · Sep 26, 2018

tommyt said:
Is this Pochettino giving Levy the benefit of the doubt and one more chance:

Pochettino offered a last thought on the new White Hart Lane, saying when it finally opens his team will no longer have an excuse for not winning trophies. “First of all we need to finish the stadium and build the trophy cabinet,” the 46-year-old said. “And when all is ready and settled is the moment to say ‘we can win now’.

“At [that] moment it will show we are a big team, with big facilities and a venue that is one of the best. There will not be an excuse afterwards. It is no use having a massive house but being unable to put furniture inside. Or if I have a cow and no grass.”

Mauricio Pochettino hopes to be in Spurs’ new stadium before Christmas

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...istmas?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

That's a message for everyone IMO. It's telling the fans that he wants to be a winner, it's telling the players that they need to have that desire to win trophies and yes, the message is also there for Levy that he needs to be backed in the transfer market.

dagraham · Sep 26, 2018

tommyt said:
Is this Pochettino giving Levy the benefit of the doubt and one more chance:

Pochettino offered a last thought on the new White Hart Lane, saying when it finally opens his team will no longer have an excuse for not winning trophies. “First of all we need to finish the stadium and build the trophy cabinet,” the 46-year-old said. “And when all is ready and settled is the moment to say ‘we can win now’.

“At [that] moment it will show we are a big team, with big facilities and a venue that is one of the best. There will not be an excuse afterwards. It is no use having a massive house but being unable to put furniture inside. Or if I have a cow and no grass.”

Mauricio Pochettino hopes to be in Spurs’ new stadium before Christmas

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...istmas?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Poch seems to have a thing for cows these days

.

In all seriousness though I hope a lot of people take note of this as it's the most important statement made imo and bang on the money. Having the best stadium is fantastic and I applaud the attention to detail put into it, but it's not as important as what happens on the pitch, particularly in an era where revenue is not as dependant on match day income anymore. I'd trade the skywalk, retractable pitch, cool fancy lighting etc for trophies.

Personally speaking, I don't think this will resonate with ENIC as they have their plan which is to maximize the value of the club whilst taking as little risk as possible, and then probably an exit plan. It's going to be interesting to see what happens after the stadium is built ( i.e. whether ENIC look to actively sell the club), because it's clear that Poch will not hang around with the constant promise of jam tomorrow. I think if we're lucky he'll give us one season after we move into NWHL to see if it remains same old, same old and if so it will be bye bye.

spursfan77 · Sep 26, 2018

dagraham said:
Poch seems to have a thing for cows these days.

In all seriousness though I hope a lot of people take note of this as it's the most important statement made imo and bang on the money. Having the best stadium is fantastic and I applaud the attention to detail put into it, but it's not as important as what happens on the pitch, particularly in an era where revenue is not as dependant on match day income anymore. I'd trade the skywalk, retractable pitch, cool fancy lighting etc for trophies.

Personally speaking, I don't think this will resonate with ENIC as they have their plan which is to maximize the value of the club whilst taking as little risk as possible, and then probably an exit plan. It's going to be interesting to see what happens after the stadium is built ( i.e. whether ENIC look to actively sell the club), because it's clear that Poch will not hang around with the constant promise of jam tomorrow. I think if we're lucky he'll give us one season after we move into NWHL to see if it remains same old, same old and if so it will be bye bye.

Without derailing the Poch thread I agree with you but I dont think they want to go anywhere in the short term. I suspect though a lot will depend on the Lewis family and whether they want to keep hold of it. After all, Joe Lewis isnt a young man.

As much as Poch is ambitious I also think he likes the security and comfort of the job with us. He hates being criticised for his work here and I think if he went to Madrid or Man Utd or somewhere like that he wouldnt be able to handle the criticism at all. Just look at the last few weeks as an example.

TheVoiceofReason · Sep 26, 2018

Shout out to Poch for changing the game relatively swiftly and effectively tonight.

werty · Sep 26, 2018

TheVoiceofReason said:
Shout out to Poch for changing the game relatively swiftly and effectively tonight.

Worryingly he started with a formation that we've struggled with so far this season.

dtxspurs · Sep 26, 2018

Trix said:
Baldini didn't control transfers. I have posted about his role in length in the past, if you want to search it out. I agree that doesn't mean Poch still didn't want someone in his position, but as I say Levy convinced him to stay on an extra 6 months or so after he said he wanted to leave, and that was during Poch's tenure.

So did he have a dealing in the Toby/Son/Tripps summer then?

coys200 · Sep 27, 2018

Have to say 1st half formation was driving me crazy. Hope the players knew what they were trying to do because I had no clue. Our full backs looked massively exposed and winks/wanyama were seemingly having to cover the entire width of the pitch. The front 4 were bizarre, was a point were all 4 were standing in a square about 5 metres apart. Honestly believe players prefer set patterns of play, just seems like there’s no consistency in any of our play this season. And that’s just how it has felt totally disjointed with no rhythm.

thfc1973 · Sep 27, 2018

coys200 said:
Have to say 1st half formation was driving me crazy. Hope the players knew what they were trying to do because I had no clue. Our full backs looked massively exposed and winks/wanyama were seemingly having to cover the entire width of the pitch. The front 4 were bizarre, was a point were all 4 were standing in a square about 5 metres apart. Honestly believe players prefer set patterns of play, just seems like there’s no consistency in any of our play this season. And that’s just how it has felt totally disjointed with no rhythm.

Why was I not surprised.....? Amazing to think the team and Poch's tactics aren't on the same wavelength, right?

sausage · Sep 27, 2018

Trix said:
Baldini didn't control transfers. I have posted about his role in length in the past, if you want to search it out. I agree that doesn't mean Poch still didn't want someone in his position, but as I say Levy convinced him to stay on an extra 6 months or so after he said he wanted to leave, and that was during Poch's tenure.

I didn't say Baldini controlled transfers - I said Poch wanted more control? His conflict with Mitchell seems to be very much about transfers, from what was said at the time.

Krule · Sep 28, 2018

Horse running today in the 5.35 at Worcester called Mauricio....it's 2/1 at the moment. Reading the form report it says :
"Could still have more improvement to come and can be expected to be right in the thick of things again"....hmmm seems quite apt so I think I'll have a flutter (y)

UPDATE
Finished 5th.....summary was "In 3rd position then dropped mid division...plugged on for the final 100 yards and ended 5th"
Wonder if that's an omen (n)

greaves · Sep 28, 2018

Krule said:
Horse running today in the 5.35 at Worcester called Mauricio....it's 2/1 at the moment. Reading the form report it says :
"Could still have more improvement to come and can be expected to be right in the thick of things again"....hmmm seems quite apt so I think I'll have a flutter

Coming in 3rd/4th?

Krule · Sep 28, 2018

greaves said:
Coming in 3rd/4th?

5th actually....see update (y)

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