Levy, ENIC and DC

am_yisrael_chai · Aug 13, 2018

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
We're the 6th wealthiest club in the league yet we are finishing 3rd, 2nd & 3rd all whilst building a new training facility & stadium though. Surely balancing both yet still overachieving on the pitch makes Levy pound for pound the best chairman of a normal functioning football club (I don't count endless pots of money as we don't have any) in the league hence making him worth his cut of being paid as the best right?

The money spent on signings, the quality of signings collectively, our consistent over performing against teams financially and brand wise far more superior than us I think makes Levy worthy of a job well done more than someone who should get hammered for not doing more. I'd have definitely liked more signings but the decision was made not to for whatever reason. I do think when you weigh up our turnover, money spent, transfer fees in, stadium build and league position etc he ranks as the top chairman of an organically run football club on these shores. Just my opinion on him without the hypothetical scenarios of what happens next

No it doesn’t, when we go up from the 6th highest revenue to be top 3 or 4 then then chairman has done a good job. As he hasn’t done that and has actually been pretty meh on the commercial side as evidenced by the failure to get naming rights closed I’d say he isn’t actually doing his job that well and certainly not well enough to be the highest paid chairman.

The fact that we are among the lowest net spenders and have the 6th highest wage bill but have finished 3-2-3 while playing an entire season of away games is indicative of the fact we have the best coach in the league who is massively over achieving relative to the resources made available to him. Now of course Levy appointed him but it is hard to give him credit for that rather than put that down to luck when his immediately prior appoint and a man he had given ever increasing power on the football side over several years was one Tim Sherwood, hardly says he knows his onions on the football side.

ToDarrenIsToDo · Aug 13, 2018

am_yisrael_chai said:
No it doesn’t, when we go up from the 6th highest revenue to be top 3 or 4 then then chairman has done a good job. As he hasn’t done that and has actually been pretty meh on the commercial side as evidenced by the failure to get naming rights closed I’d say he isn’t actually doing his job that well and certainly not well enough to be the highest paid chairman.

The fact that we are among the lowest net spenders and have the 6th highest wage bill but have finished 3-2-3 while playing an entire season of away games is indicative of the fact we have the best coach in the league who is massively over achieving relative to the resources made available to him. Now of course Levy appointed him but it is hard to give him credit for that rather than put that down to luck when his immediately prior appoint and a man he had given ever increasing power on the football side over several years was one Tim Sherwood, hardly says he knows his onions on the football side.

Tim Sherwood was a caretaker manager. The clauses in his contract makes that apparanelty clear that is the case. We can only go so far with revenue until the stadium is built. Levys task coinciding with his achievement has seen us finish in the top 4 5 times under two different managers, seen us steadily improve on year, qualify numerous times for the Europa League for the first time really since the Premier League started and do so whilst staying within a financial guideline whilst other teams have had an avalanche of money thrust towards the, from all quarters of the world. I personally think he has many things he could have done better but hindsight is a lovely thing, I also believe that where we currently are, with pretty much breakeven business model on transfers that I sincerely hope has been implemented to help cushion the blow of a stadium build that will generate a further £100m per season in gate receipts, sales from the area, the hotels due to be built etc is a pretty miraculous achievement seeing as teams like Fulham can spend £100m on first team development without kicking a Premier League ball in lord knows how long.

Time will tell and the money needs to be reinvested. If it isn't I'll start to seriously ask questions as to the intentions Levy & ENIC have for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club but until then I stay pro Levy as the team has steadily developed positively under his leadership, albeit with a few hiccups along the way. This is Levys most important season. If we don't finish top 4 he'll get slated but if he does and the call to not buy players in a ridiculously over inflated market is correct, he equally deserves props for his decision making this time around. We ain't got endless pots of cash and we are now trying to compete with Real Madrid & Barcelona for high calibre talent, it's a tough position but a great one filled with prudent, astute ambition should it continue the way it had done prior to the window we've just had. I'm willing to keep the faith

am_yisrael_chai · Aug 13, 2018

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
Tim Sherwood was a caretaker manager. The clauses in his contract makes that apparanelty clear that is the case. We can only go so far with revenue until the stadium is built. Levys task coinciding with his achievement has seen us finish in the top 4 5 times under two different managers, seen us steadily improve on year, qualify numerous times for the Europa League for the first time really since the Premier League started and do so whilst staying within a financial guideline whilst other teams have had an avalanche of money thrust towards the, from all quarters of the world. I personally think he has many things he could have done better but hindsight is a lovely thing, I also believe that where we currently are, with pretty much breakeven business model on transfers that I sincerely hope has been implemented to help cushion the blow of a stadium build that will generate a further £100m per season in gate receipts, sales from the area, the hotels due to be built etc is a pretty miraculous achievement seeing as teams like Fulham can spend £100m on first team development without kicking a Premier League ball in lord knows how long.

Time will tell and the money needs to be reinvested. If it isn't I'll start to seriously ask questions as to the intentions Levy & ENIC have for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club but until then I stay pro Levy as the team has steadily developed positively under his leadership, albeit with a few hiccups along the way. This is Levys most important season. If we don't finish top 4 he'll get slated but if he does and the call to not buy players in a ridiculously over inflated market is correct, he equally deserves props for his decision making this time around. We ain't got endless pots of cash and we are now trying to compete with Real Madrid & Barcelona for high calibre talent, it's a tough position but a great one filled with prudent, astute ambition should it continue the way it had done prior to the window we've just had. I'm willing to keep the faith

Tim Sherwood became caretaker after being given an ever increasingly powerful role on the footballing side of the club. He clearly knows nothing about football, he was the genius who along with Les Ferdinand passed on Luis Suarez. As to the rest of your post time will indeed tell. Put me in the sceptical camp that very much doubts we will ever see the increased revenues spent in terms of additional recruitment. I think we are rapidly reaching the exit point for ENIC. That itself fills me with major fear as with the £2bn price tag they have the next owners are going to seriously sweat the asset. Once again I’m highly sceptical ENIC will be picky about the club’s next steward I think it will just be whoever pays them the most. I’m a shareholder so will benefit from this but I’m much more attached as a fan to the club and I don’t think ENIC have any ambitions to deliver Poch the tools to do the job of winning major trophies.

Lilbaz · Aug 13, 2018

am_yisrael_chai said:
No it doesn’t, when we go up from the 6th highest revenue to be top 3 or 4 then then chairman has done a good job. As he hasn’t done that and has actually been pretty meh on the commercial side as evidenced by the failure to get naming rights closed I’d say he isn’t actually doing his job that well and certainly not well enough to be the highest paid chairman.

The fact that we are among the lowest net spenders and have the 6th highest wage bill but have finished 3-2-3 while playing an entire season of away games is indicative of the fact we have the best coach in the league who is massively over achieving relative to the resources made available to him. Now of course Levy appointed him but it is hard to give him credit for that rather than put that down to luck when his immediately prior appoint and a man he had given ever increasing power on the football side over several years was one Tim Sherwood, hardly says he knows his onions on the football side.

We also got 4th twice under redknapp.

Give him some credit.

ohtottenham! · Aug 13, 2018

am_yisrael_chai said:
Tim Sherwood became caretaker after being given an ever increasingly powerful role on the footballing side of the club. He clearly knows nothing about football, he was the genius who along with Les Ferdinand passed on Luis Suarez. As to the rest of your post time will indeed tell. Put me in the sceptical camp that very much doubts we will ever see the increased revenues spent in terms of additional recruitment. I think we are rapidly reaching the exit point for ENIC. That itself fills me with major fear as with the £2bn price tag they have the next owners are going to seriously sweat the asset. Once again I’m highly sceptical ENIC will be picky about the club’s next steward I think it will just be whoever pays them the most. I’m a shareholder so will benefit from this but I’m much more attached as a fan to the club and I don’t think ENIC have any ambitions to deliver Poch the tools to do the job of winning major trophies.

Think you're being harsh on Levy, 'cause he's been instrumental in changing the direction of the club in a positive way. That happened before we got Poch. I'm with you on being suspicious about the end game strategy re Levy and ENIC.

Lilbaz · Aug 13, 2018

am_yisrael_chai said:
Tim Sherwood became caretaker after being given an ever increasingly powerful role on the footballing side of the club. He clearly knows nothing about football, he was the genius who along with Les Ferdinand passed on Luis Suarez. As to the rest of your post time will indeed tell. Put me in the sceptical camp that very much doubts we will ever see the increased revenues spent in terms of additional recruitment. I think we are rapidly reaching the exit point for ENIC. That itself fills me with major fear as with the £2bn price tag they have the next owners are going to seriously sweat the asset. Once again I’m highly sceptical ENIC will be picky about the club’s next steward I think it will just be whoever pays them the most. I’m a shareholder so will benefit from this but I’m much more attached as a fan to the club and I don’t think ENIC have any ambitions to deliver Poch the tools to do the job of winning major trophies.

We love our villains don't we? He was in charge of development (harry kane etc...). They didn't pass on suarez they just said he was similar to vdv.

Wasn't great but he wasn't trying to destroy the club, neither is levy.

spurs9 · Aug 13, 2018

Lilbaz said:
We love our villains don't we? He was in charge of development (harry kane etc...). They didn't pass on suarez they just said he was similar to vdv.

Wasn't great but he wasn't trying to destroy the club, neither is levy.

Sherwood was Redknapp's assistant at the time. He was put in charge of the youth team in 2011/12 season when Andy Hudson left.

Quotes from Ruud Gullit about Suarez.
"They came to watch him. I met Sherwood together with Les Ferdinand, they were Harry Redknapp's assistants at the time and were also his scouts. They asked me all kinds of questions about Suarez, so I just point blank said: "You have to snap him up, without any hesitation, in a heartbeat," Gullit said.

""Well, we're not sure," they said whilst they actually watched him play. That's a huge mistake, if you ask me. Afterwards they said to me: "Well, we might have got it wrong."" he added.

luptic · Aug 13, 2018

For me, there needs to be a new approach by the club to identify players that will make the difference in 2 to 3 years.
We can't compete at this moment for players like Shearer eluded to too, with the likes of City or Chelsea. We might have foundations in place now to grow, but we will always struggle at paying over the odds.
The problem now in football, when you look at when we snapped up Bale etc, when you influential agents like Mendez and Riaola whoring players out to companies that run Football clubs in ordered to get them the best window at that time to showcase their services, in the hope that some sugar daddy club will pay top dollar for them, then the chances of us getting these players (say Kluivert or Neves) is slim to none. There are too many people in control of football, out there for interests that have nothing to do with the interest of the clubs, and the sooner the football associates sort this out the better, but when you have the governing bodies constantly whoring themselves to the oil dollar, then we really don't have a chance.
I can see why the club failed to address the problems we at present, but it would unforgivable for them not to address these next season.

TottenhamMattSpur · Aug 13, 2018

Lilbaz said:
Be fair though wasn't that statement made before levy saying the stadium wasn't financially viable?

Our transfer budget has been zero for years near enough.

And this is why I don't believe we're suddenly skint and have to keep selling like Arsenal.
It's taken ENIC 17 years since their arrival to get this stadium up. Rarely have they ever spent positive sums of money on player investment.

SURELY a large chunk of the money they've been squirilling away has already been used to finance the stadium. If he can sort out a naming rights deal, that helps with another huge chunk of it leaving a moderate amount O/S that could be paid off quicker than Arsenal due to massively increased TV Revenue.

So not spending this summer, imo, has little to do with the stadium and everything to do with being fucking useless at transfer business, living off past glory and reputation over deals and not moving with the times.

He's literally living off the VDV moment and that's embarrassing.

TottenhamMattSpur · Aug 13, 2018

luptic said:
I can see why the club failed to address the problems we at present, but it would unforgivable for them not to address these next season.

Could have bought a reasonably priced bullet proof vest this summer.
Next year we'll be paying a team of surgeons to try to stem the flow of blood.
In Levy's case, unqualified surgeons from France with N's in front of their names.

jyoshinmonchris · Aug 13, 2018

TottenhamMattSpur said:
He's literally living off the VDV moment and that's embarrassing.

Shadydan · Aug 13, 2018

jyoshinmonchris said:

No surprise there.

CoopsieDeadpool · Aug 13, 2018

People are (rightly) missing from the site for mentioning the T word, or making speculative guesses where they shouldn't, but some of the posts in here are, quite frankly, a crying shame.

We're all supposed to support the same club, yet you'd think this was a thread that was, with some of the abuse and vitriol bring thrown around, being posted in by Spurs & Gooner supporters.

Why can't people just politely agree to disagree, rather than tear the shit out of eachother & basically lower themselves to a level much worse than any of our rivals are capable of.

Frustration is perfectly understandable, but take a breath or two before venting it towards someone who is supposed to share the exact same love as you do.

Some people are for Levy/ENIC, some are against them. None of us should be against eachother.

COYS

wakefieldyid · Aug 13, 2018

Lilbaz said:
. Somebody ring jim ratcliffe and tell him to forget about chelsea and buy us. Keep levy to run it but get a dof in to negotiate deals. I would be a happy man.

As someone who's spent his almost his entire working life in the chemical industry, I can assure you that I would certainly not want Jim Ratcliffe anywhere near Spurs. His whole business strategy has been based on buying distressed assets cheaply and then squeezing profit from them. It would break his heart to find himself funding the acquisition of £100 million professional footballers to compete with the likes of the Sultanate of Dubai, when he knows that he could maximise his revenues by maintaining season ticket prices whilst relying on the output from the academy. He's effectively a posher version of Mike Ashley.
ENIC may have many flaws, but Jim Ratcliffe is certainly not the answer. He's clearly a much better fit at Stamford Bridge!

philip · Aug 13, 2018

am_yisrael_chai said:
No it doesn’t, when we go up from the 6th highest revenue to be top 3 or 4 then then chairman has done a good job. As he hasn’t done that and has actually been pretty meh on the commercial side as evidenced by the failure to get naming rights closed I’d say he isn’t actually doing his job that well and certainly not well enough to be the highest paid chairman.

The fact that we are among the lowest net spenders and have the 6th highest wage bill but have finished 3-2-3 while playing an entire season of away games is indicative of the fact we have the best coach in the league who is massively over achieving relative to the resources made available to him. Now of course Levy appointed him but it is hard to give him credit for that rather than put that down to luck when his immediately prior appoint and a man he had given ever increasing power on the football side over several years was one Tim Sherwood, hardly says he knows his onions on the football side.

The other reason we have achieved top 3 for the last three years is because Levy, not long after he arrived, realised the value of a world class academy and youth setup, bringing through and buying talented, mainly British youngsters.

Bringing through Kane, Winks, Skipp etc didn't happen by chance. Neither did Livermore, CCV, Mason and the host of others playing in the PL and championship. It was due to the complete overhaul of our academy that Levy put in place.
Likewise, we didn't get lucky when buying Lennon, Bale, Defoe, Walker, Rose, Keane and all the others that progressed us from being a middle of the table team up getting into the CL under Redknapp. It was due to Levy putting in place and driving through the policy of identifying and buying talented, mainly British, youngsters, creaming off the best and usually making profits on those that didn't make it.

Yes, the level we're at now makes that even harder, and the bargains are not there, but thanks to Levy's long term planning we have the world class academy and training ground that is the foundations of our club!

TottenhamMattSpur · Aug 13, 2018

jyoshinmonchris said:

So you're telling me, that since VDV came, Levy hasn't been repeatedly leaving deals as late as possible in the window, hoping for a bargain to pop up?
Funny, cause that's exactly what he's been doing without noticing that with hundreds of millions coming in from TV money, so called poor clubs can tell him to F right off when he pulls that shit.

Khilari · Aug 13, 2018

am_yisrael_chai said:
No it doesn’t, when we go up from the 6th highest revenue to be top 3 or 4 then then chairman has done a good job. As he hasn’t done that and has actually been pretty meh on the commercial side as evidenced by the failure to get naming rights closed I’d say he isn’t actually doing his job that well and certainly not well enough to be the highest paid chairman.

The fact that we are among the lowest net spenders and have the 6th highest wage bill but have finished 3-2-3 while playing an entire season of away games is indicative of the fact we have the best coach in the league who is massively over achieving relative to the resources made available to him. Now of course Levy appointed him but it is hard to give him credit for that rather than put that down to luck when his immediately prior appoint and a man he had given ever increasing power on the football side over several years was one Tim Sherwood, hardly says he knows his onions on the football side.

Wow. I'm almost speechless reading this. I guess you have very high standards and expectations compared to me, which isn't good/bad/right/wrong, but surprising at how different they are.

Tottenham Hotspur, a club of next to no success in recent years (three cups in 37 years), largely living off memories of grandeur from 50+ years ago and iconic individual talent scattered throughout has been taken to the very summit of the most competitive league in the world, dominated by teams with consistent winning pedigree and massive worldwide following or sugar-daddy-oligarch/state sponsored teams.
This has happened through a process of evolution and careful brand building in the far east and US, development of a state of the art training ground, managing to (almost) deliver a brand new self-funded stadium in London (so much harder), whilst maintaining consistent improvement on and off the field every year.

I'd say that's pretty fucking astounding.

Waving the 'Tim Sherwood was shit' card is so irrelevant. So Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal haven't made managerial appointments (or lack of sackings for Arsenal) that were poor? Or backroom staff appointments that weren't ideal?
'Failure' to get a naming rights deal based on a business deal that didn't go through? Was there a time limit on getting this done? Has not having a naming rights deal now precluded the club from securing one? Do business deals not fall through (quite often)?

Now no-one can credibly say Levy is 'the best chairman', nor deny that he has made mistakes. But that is life! People get things wrong all the time. He will make more mistakes. But saying he isn't actually doing his job that well is quite harsh given what he has done and the context in which he's done it.

Blackrat1299 · Aug 13, 2018

Lilbaz said:
I can tell you their statement of intent. Try and win something, get cl and finish the stadium.

What would you expect them to say?

More than that :sneaky:

johnweldon10@hotmail.com · Aug 13, 2018

Lilbaz said:
The £6m figure was back pay and bonuses regarding the stadium. His normal pay is around £2.8m. We've paid agents more.
For what he does or is trying to do it is little in the scheme of things. Juventus negotiated a €75m naming rights deal for their stadium, €15m went to agents. At the moment he does the deals (nike, aia, etc...).

With respect Lilbaz, I think you're deflecting a little here, and not really answering the questions I posed: Is Levy the highest paid Chairman in the League or not? With that level of salary isn't there an expectation (rightly or wrongly) to deliver on those very "deals" you describe? Was he or was he not the only "deal broker" over 5 leagues who failed to negotiate a single transfer? If it had been Comolli or Baldini negotiating those failed deals this summer do you think they'd still be in jobs? I think once you've answered those questions honestly it's hard to argue that this window has been anything other than an unmitigated failure for Levy. He's failed to back the manager in the transfer market despite the assurances he provided in May, and I genuinely believe ENIC and Levy need to up their game if they're to keep Pochetinno and our best players happy moving forward.

jyoshinmonchris · Aug 13, 2018

coopsieyid said:
People are (rightly) missing from the site for mentioning the T word, or making speculative guesses where they shouldn't, but some of the posts in here are, quite frankly, a crying shame.

We're all supposed to support the same club, yet you'd think this was a thread that was, with some of the abuse and vitriol bring thrown around, being posted in by Spurs & Gooner supporters.

Why can't people just politely agree to disagree, rather than tear the shit out of eachother & basically lower themselves to a level much worse than any of our rivals are capable of.

Frustration is perfectly understandable, but take a breath or two before venting it towards someone who is supposed to share the exact same love as you do.

Some people are for Levy/ENIC, some are against them. None of us should be against eachother.

COYS

I honestly just wholeheartedly disagreed with that line in his post and thought the gif would be funnier than clicking the disagree button which seems to cause more angst. Bad attempt at humour. I love him really. :cautious:

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