The Mauricio Pochettino thread

ljinko888 · Apr 22, 2018

diamond lights said:
I did not once say anything about posters wanting him sacked. I said I was sick of arseholes that think they know more than our manager when they clearly don't and that they should be careful what they wish for. That means that they don't know how well of they are until that manager walks away. Look at some of the posts about 8-10 pages ago. Maybe while you were sleeping Hank?

When you support a team/manager you support them through good and bad and if you want perfection then you're going to be disappointed. We have more good than bad and I'm sure the players and Poch are feeling this today as well without fans having a go.

Slag off other teams and managers - not our own. (unless they're Sherwood )

Can support Poch and still voice critique when it applies.

We could have gone top of the league beating West Ham at Upton Park at the start of March 2016. Had we won, we then could have built a six point gap before Leicester played their next game by winning the NLD in the early Saturday kick off. We took 1/6 points.

We should have gone through in the Europa League last season. It took a lot of banging on the door to score two goals. Off memory we hit the post twice and had a shot cleared off the line at 1-1 before Wanyama scored a belter. Still needed one more goal but we cocked up in a rare attack from Gent and it's tie over.

We could have beaten Chelsea in the SF last season and won a cup, perhaps changing the tide of the title race too. At 2-2 the momentum was with us, but we get done from a corner and a wonder strike kills the hope.

We outplayed Juventus for most of the 180 minutes yet were knocked out on aggregate.

And then there was yesterday. 1-0 up deservedly, gift an equaliser, go 2-1 down and never recover. There was plenty of time left but we looked deflated.

These were all chances to go on and win silverware. Not saying we should have won them all. And we could have beaten Chelsea and lost the final. We could have knocked out Juventus and went out the next round. But the fact is we didn't win any of them.

Poch has been excellent for our club but the one criticism I have is when an opportunity knocks on our door we blow it. We're always ending up the team chasing at the end whether it's a fight for the title or a cup match.

DCSPUR · Apr 22, 2018

from our own @Allygold:
"There is a frustration from the manager that sections of the media and fanbase can't see his view, that he's created a team that competed and, had it taken its chances, could have beaten a Manchester United side that has had a net spend of £127m this season alone, compared to Tottenham's £14.8m."

DCSPUR · Apr 22, 2018

Everlasting Seconds said:
I don't think we actually improved this season. I think we really improved last season, and it got me quite excited. But in this season I think we clearly stagnated a bit.

If you want to change the mindset of the supporters, that has to start with the players. They need to show on the pitch a firm change into a winning mentality. Fail to show up for a semi-final, and fans' mindset simply won't be changed. I also find it funny that on one hand, people are calling for a change in fans' mentality, but on the other hand we are constantly told "you should be happy, have you forgotten the 90s?". So tell me please, which is it? Should we, the fans, change our mentality? Or should we count our blessings due to not being involved in the relegation battle? Most certainly both can't be equally true.

If the primary goal for Pochettino has been to change the underlying mentality, he got some way to go before we can actually deem it a success.

The concluding paragraph of Jonathan Wilson of the Guardian is a good summary:
"For all Pochettino’s best efforts, not far beneath the surface traces of Spursiness still linger."
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ter-united-cup-semi-final-mauricio-pochettino

it is the utter lack of context that some of our fans have that infuriates. Wanyama was a monster for us last season and has basically been injured or struggling for form/ fitness at either end of the year. Toby, putting aside the last few weeks, went from being a star defender last year and early this to being out for most of it. Danny Rose has been injured, struggling for form/ fitness, reinjured over the last 18 months. Lamela after being steller two years ago has been out for almost that time. Winks, in the fall, was on the verge of being a starter for club and country before injuries hit.

We don't have the resources and depth to cover for this....and that SOME fans are incapable of seeing this is....infuriating

homer hotspur · Apr 22, 2018

spursfan77 said:
This is an excerpt from Daniel Levy’s pages in Poch’s book talking about Pochettino:

“The public perception is that managers always want more players and the chairman never wants to spend money. Actually the contrast with Mauricio is quite interesting. If I left him to it we’d probably just have 11 players! I respect the fact that he is definitely not the type of manager who wants to spend money. I know some fans and the media think we have to spend, spend, spend, but every time we have done a big transfer, generally speaking, those players haven’t been the best performing players.”

It struck me that those comments we hear about Poch wanting to be backed couldn’t be further from the truth. He wants to be assured. He wants to feel everything is how he wants it. That’s different from spanning a load of cash unless Poch has changed a habit of a lifetime.

After reading the book, i concluded that there is a real risk of a total meltdown when Poch does leave, especially if it is in the next year or two, the scale of which could put us back to where we were before he came combined with a new stadium to fill.
I think his comments yesterday showed his real disappointment at the defeat despite his perceived lack of hunger for the FA Cup beforehand. I hope he will soon re-focus but , should we collapse in the league and lose 4th, I think it is more than likely that he would leave of his own accord even though DL and the great majority of fans ( me included) would not want that. I just think he would regard that as too much of a failure.

steve · Apr 22, 2018

DCSPUR said:
from our own @Allygold:
"There is a frustration from the manager that sections of the media and fanbase can't see his view, that he's created a team that competed and, had it taken its chances, could have beaten a Manchester United side that has had a net spend of £127m this season alone, compared to Tottenham's £14.8m."

Yeah the media love a story they can continually trot out, they're mostly lazy and not very good at insightful analysis so they form a narrative based on a list of unconnected events.

One fuck up from Dem yesterday changes the whole game, a very tactical game against a quality side with some very good players who have cost a fortune and pick up massive wages. But what does Poch get off the media? The usual you need to win a trophy bollocks.

When it comes from shitkickers like Shearer who went to Newcastle and won fuck all there then it would stick in my throat too...

Colonel_Klinck · Apr 22, 2018

rickyhayward said:
So what part of that is supposedly wrong?

- He does make mistakes with lineup, subs and tactics time and time again.
- Not a 'great' manager,
- Hasn't won anything

and yes I don't think he'd be much of a loss if he were to go, we were winning nothing before he came, and won nothing since he has come here. We've not done anything of note bar get Champions League football of which has been a case of the top four not being so good in the last couple years and then this year Chelsea and Arsenal faltering.

We've failed at every chance to actually win something, season after season and four years on none of it looks like changing. Why?

Jesus does anyone have the number for the Samaritans? Any more of posts like this and I’m fucking ending it

Gassin's finest · Apr 22, 2018

Everlasting Seconds said:
I don't think we actually improved this season. I think we really improved last season, and it got me quite excited. But in this season I think we clearly stagnated a bit.

If you want to change the mindset of the supporters, that has to start with the players. They need to show on the pitch a firm change into a winning mentality. Fail to show up for a semi-final, and fans' mindset simply won't be changed. I also find it funny that on one hand, people are calling for a change in fans' mentality, but on the other hand we are constantly told "you should be happy, have you forgotten the 90s?". So tell me please, which is it? Should we, the fans, change our mentality? Or should we count our blessings due to not being involved in the relegation battle? Most certainly both can't be equally true.

If the primary goal for Pochettino has been to change the underlying mentality, he got some way to go before we can actually deem it a success.

The concluding paragraph of Jonathan Wilson of the Guardian is a good summary:
"For all Pochettino’s best efforts, not far beneath the surface traces of Spursiness still linger."
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ter-united-cup-semi-final-mauricio-pochettino

Fans mentality is about belief, support, and not falling back on old habits of crying "spursiness", "bottling" and demanding change. Have faith and belief in our journey, and above all be brave.

That isn't about eliminating all critiscm and concern, how else do you allow scope to improve.

I've said that I think Poch needs to acquire the winning mentality and nous himself, he's still relatively young for a manager and will be learning himself every day. We as supporters need to learn to believe that they will and support them.

Gb160 · Apr 22, 2018

DCSPUR said:
from our own @Allygold:
"There is a frustration from the manager that sections of the media and fanbase can't see his view, that he's created a team that competed and, had it taken its chances, could have beaten a Manchester United side that has had a net spend of £127m this season alone, compared to Tottenham's £14.8m."

This is what makes me laugh when I read the 'Levy will have a decision to make blah blah' type posts.
No one knows better than Levy what a great job Poch is doing with the resources available.
It's the easiest decision Levy will ever have to make.

greaves · Apr 22, 2018

Gassin's finest said:
Fans mentality is about belief, support, and not falling back on old habits of crying "spursiness", "bottling" and demanding change. Have faith and belief in our journey, and above all be brave.

That isn't about eliminating all critiscm and concern, how else do you allow scope to improve.

I've said that I think Poch needs to acquire the winning mentality and nous himself, he's still relatively young for a manager and will be learning himself every day. We as supporters need to learn to believe that they will and support them.

Yep. And 'legends' is such a lazily used black-and-white kind of word.

JUSTINSIGNAL · Apr 22, 2018

shelfboy68 said:
Better recruitment would help llorente,aurier what's that all about and maybe not be so stubborn about playing certain players such as rose and Toby

Better recruitment? We’re one of the best clubs at recruitment. Hence the fact we’re competing with teams with much bigger resources and not spent half as much as them. EVERY club can be better are recruitment but no one can be perfect. There is always the element of risk with all signings.

Lumiere · Apr 22, 2018

Am I the only one that's tired of this "us finishing in the top four is because Chelsea/Man City etc. are weaker" argument? It's such a desperate bottom of the barrel attempt to denigrate what we've achieved and yet it gets trotted out every time we have some bad form.

longtimespur · Apr 22, 2018

Well I kept of here until about an hour ago........................................... and by f..k was I right to.
Some real WUM's and many hilariously OTT comments.

Oh for the days of patience and fully supporting the team you love.

Nowadays with social media, such as SC and twitter, we've had maniacal thoughts and even more outlandish ideas of how to proceed and progress our glorious club.

I'm out of this thread till sensible arguments return.

ardiles · Apr 22, 2018

Everlasting Seconds said:
That's it. I also find it a little bit worrisome that after 4 full seasons, the top 3 arguments pro Pochettino (in random order) are:

Remember the 90s? (So shut up)
Bright and shiny stadium (So shut up)
Alex Ferguson (So shut up)

Stadium? Seriously? Should a fan care more about the silvery facade on the club's stadium, or the silver in the trophy cabinet?

A bigger stadium would bring in more earnings (from sales of tickets, beverages and club merchandise from the club stores - and that includes earnings from tourist spending) and more money from sponsors (including naming rights). More money in would allow the club to allot a bigger sum (I personally think that Levy will loosen the purse strings) for higher grade players (transfer fees) and keep the players that we want to keep (better wages). So its not just simply about playing in a new stadium but about what the new stadium can and will bring us.

thebenjamin · Apr 22, 2018

Everlasting Seconds said:
That's it. I also find it a little bit worrisome that after 4 full seasons, the top 3 arguments pro Pochettino (in random order) are:

Remember the 90s? (So shut up)
Bright and shiny stadium (So shut up)
Alex Ferguson (So shut up)

Stadium? Seriously? Should a fan care more about the silvery facade on the club's stadium, or the silver in the trophy cabinet?

You don't think the hundreds of millions the club has poured into building the stadium is directly related to the difficulty of the manager's job?

shelfboy68 · Apr 22, 2018

Gb160 said:
This is what makes me laugh when I read the 'Levy will have a decision to make blah blah' type posts.
No one knows better than Levy what a great job Poch is doing with the resources available.
It's the easiest decision Levy will ever have to make.

That's because there isn't a decision to make.

archiewasking · Apr 22, 2018

E17yid said:
Not bothered. FA cup is shit anyway.

I knew you were lurking around Poch ?

am_yisrael_chai · Apr 22, 2018

Everlasting Seconds said:
That's it. I also find it a little bit worrisome that after 4 full seasons, the top 3 arguments pro Pochettino (in random order) are:

Remember the 90s? (So shut up)
Bright and shiny stadium (So shut up)
Alex Ferguson (So shut up)

Stadium? Seriously? Should a fan care more about the silvery facade on the club's stadium, or the silver in the trophy cabinet?

I'm not sure if you are serious or on a wind up to try and lighten the mood. Who on earth is suggesting those 3 arguments ? You want arguments for Pochettino then I'd suggest these:

- The prior 2 seasons were the first time since the mid-1980s we had been anywhere close to a title chase, even if we ultimately failed (as we did in the 80s)
- Our net spend in his period is close to zero, significantly less than our nearest 5 competitors
- Our wage bill is the 6th highest in the league and yet we have finished 3rd and 2nd and will hopefully finish in the top 4 again
- We have gone from hoping we might scrape CL to making it reasonably comfortably for 3 season on the trot (again I'm assuming no implosion in the final 4 games)
- He is one of the few coaches in the league that is able to both improve the players and make the team more than the sum of its parts

If anyone can't see that the only thing at the club that should really give us any optimism for the future is Mauricio Pochettino then I just despair. If he said he wanted to leave Spurs then every top club across Europe, bar Citeh, would be interested in him - Madrid, ManU, PSG, Bayern. If all the club's other employees were as excellent in their jobs as our manager is in his, and I include our dear Chairman in this, then we'd be competing with City even allowing for the massive financial disadvantage we have.

Hercules · Apr 22, 2018

For whatever it is worth, and the whispers coming out, Poch is very happy, but not contented. He now believes he wants one good opportunity to have a good swing with quality acquisitions. And I am told he wants LB, 2 ACM, 1 striker that can play different positions. On Toby going (?) he wants another CH, and this I have already addressed.

Now I know the club will back him with circa say 150m, plus monies he generates from sales. He wants proven young quality, and one experienced proven quality between the ages of say 28-32 (my guess).

Yesterday hurt him deep, and he doesn’t believe we have the clinical quality work if Eriksen & Kane not doing it. He wants options.

I honestly do not believe he will sign a new contract extension, unless he has firm assurances. I personally believe the hierarchy will back him fully, and are finding ways to do such.

Btw, please, honestly-STOP talking about new stadium financial restrictions. It is well covered, even if media hasn’t had a sniff. Daniel is in his territory there.

Let’s back Poch rather than slagging him off for tactical naivety on the odd occasions, or his stubbornness on others. We really don’t know what we have in him. We are blessed.

Hengy1 · Apr 22, 2018

Hercules said:
For whatever it is worth, and the whispers coming out, Poch is very happy, but not contented. He now believes he wants one good opportunity to have a good swing with quality acquisitions. And I am told he wants LB, 2 ACM, 1 striker that can play different positions. On To y going he wants another CH, and this I have already addressed.

Now I know the club will back him with circa say 150m, plus monies he generates from sales. He wants proven young quality, and one experienced proven quality between the ages of say 28-32 (my guess).

Yesterday hurt him deep, and he doesn’t believe we have the clinical quality of Eriksen & Kane not doing it. He wants options.

I honestly do not believe he will sign a new contract extension, unless he has firm assurances. I personally believe the hierarchy will back him fully, and are finding ways to do such.

Btw, please, honestly-STOP talking about new stadium financial restrictions. It is well covered, even if media hasn’t had a sniff. Daniel is in his territory there.

Let’s back Poch rather than slagging him off for tactical naivety on the odd occasions, or his stubbornness on others. We really don’t know what we have in him. We are blessed.

Wow two more ACM. Hopefully one that is more a B2B to cover CM too.

Hopefully all positive in house and we can keep going with poch

rocklink · Apr 22, 2018

Two more acm on top of lamela, lucas, son, ali? :/

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C'est diabolique

Well done boys. Good process

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Waiting for silverware..........

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