The Rugby Thread

E17yid · Jul 10, 2017

talkshowhost86 said:
Worcester are a decent team. With their squad depth I think they'd easily finish top 6 in the Pro 12.

Their first team wouldn't cope against the first teams of many pro 12 teams but as the first teams play so irregularly I'd fancy Worcester.

The Irish teams do better in Europe yes and the Pro 12 allows them to focus on that. Although even with that caveat they aren't doing great recently.

I personally think they and the Welsh teams would do much better in Europe if they were able to play their teams more reugularly in the Pro 12 and if the league was structured a bit better.

i.e. Cut down the teams, allow the clubs more control and generally stop treating it like a second tier competition.

So...step one...add South African teams

I think you're being optimistic with Worcester. Funnily enough Worcester is the team I've watched most over the last few years on account of my father in law being a season ticket holder but its impossible to say. I certainly think they could finish top 6 but equally I could easily see them finishing 8th/9th

SugarRay · Jul 10, 2017

E17yid said:
SOB had a great tour but for me, personally, I'd have Cane every day of the week. Think he's mustard. Only mid 20s as well.

To be honest, that combined side is really favouring the Lions. SOB would be the only Lion challenging for a backrow spot. Cane was brilliant in the first test and with SBW going off early in the second, it was 3 v 2 in the Lions favour when Kaino went off. Read obviously starts 100 times out of a 100 in any combined side too.
Obviously the BBC are forgetting how the all blacks dominated the first test, and are ignoring that they should have been 15+ points ahead in the 3rd test!

SugarRay · Jul 10, 2017

E17yid said:
And you're conveniently ignoring the fact that whatever competition Sarecens play in is not as high a standard as international rugby. It's not football whereby clubs are better than international sides.

30mins a game, come on mate. He's not starting for you. What you just described doesn't really equate to comfortably better, that, to me, implies 1 player is in another league but you admit that Owens is a very good hooker and accept George isn't in Coles league so where does that leave the 2. Id say both good players who are in the same league get one is playing a starting matches at a higher standard.

Like I say, come back when he's starting and making mincemeat out of Owens.

Not getting involved in the debate, but, quarter finals onwards in the European Cup are definitely at the same level as international games. Saracens would stand a good chance of winning the 6 nations if they were allowed to enter it imo.

E17yid · Jul 10, 2017

SugarRay said:
Not getting involved in the debate, but, quarter finals onwards in the European Cup are definitely at the same level as international games. Saracens would stand a good chance of winning the 6 nations if they were allowed to enter it imo.

I don't think they would seeing as their best players would be playing for England.

Wasn't there 3 pro 12 teams in the Qtr finals compared to just Wasps and Sarecens from the Prem? Sarecens a cut above, though.

E17yid · Jul 11, 2017

Sinkler got arrested in Auckland on Sunday morning. Lol.

What is it with these Harlequins props, TSH?

E17yid · Jul 11, 2017

Some say Mourinho is more like Gatland rather than Eddie Jones. Don't really like Monye and he's way off here but always good to hear another take.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p058bly4

talkshowhost86 · Jul 11, 2017

E17yid said:
Sinkler got arrested in Auckland on Sunday morning. Lol.

What is it with these Harlequins props, TSH?

It's because they have all grown up on the tough mean and dangerous streets of...ummmm...Twickenham.

What a plum.

talkshowhost86 · Jul 11, 2017

E17yid said:
I don't think they would seeing as their best players would be playing for England.

Wasn't there 3 pro 12 teams in the Qtr finals compared to just Wasps and Sarecens from the Prem? Sarecens a cut above, though.

I think he was talking about the extremely hypothetical situation where each team would have all their players.

But ignoring the England factor, I'd fancy Sarries' first team to beat the other six nations sides. They don't have better players, but that togetherness that they've got, plus some fantastic coaching, would give them an edge over teams that don't get to meet up that often.

And yes it was 3 v 2 in the QF this year (from 7 v 6 in the group stage). It was an odd year this year for the English teams as three of the teams in the European Championships had fairly shocking seasons (Sale, Northampton and Leicester) and the other team who didn't make the QF were Exeter, who started very slowly this season and were out of the running in Europe before their season really kicked into gear. Will be interesting to see how they get on next season as from December onwards they were awesome.

Anyway let's stop talking about Europe...the fact that Quins are in the competition next season scares me to death!

E17yid · Jul 11, 2017

talkshowhost86 said:
It's because they have all grown up on the tough mean and dangerous streets of...ummmm...Twickenham.

What a plum.

Sounds like there was nothing in it.

Danners9 · Jul 12, 2017

It's HT in the Game of Origin decider. QLD 12-0 NSW at the moment. They've been dominant, stronger and much smarter in attack. Could have been worse but one of the guys didn't have the legs and got caught close to the line.

I was out in Brisbane earlier today and there were loads of people wandering about in their colours, from both sides. Sitting there having lunch on adjacent tables, having a beer while everyone else is at work, killing time at the shops etc.. People must have taken a day off for it (to fly from Sydney you'd have to..) , but it made me chuckle thinking of the carnage of a Spurs/Arsenal series and whether people would wear away colours while out and about. Probably not

.

No Thurston, unfortunately, but QLD seem to be doing alright without him.

talkshowhost86 · Jul 19, 2017

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40649652

Confirmed that the South African teams will be added to the pro-12 from next season.

The new Pro14 league will kick-off in the first week of September and will comprise two conferences of seven teams. Each conference will have one Scottish side, one South African side, one Italian side and two each from Wales and Ireland.

The current preference is for two conferences of seven teams playing each other home and away. Within this format, the teams would also play one game against all the sides from the other conference, which would deliver 19 fixtures.

Additionally, each club would also play home and away derby fixtures as well, providing a total of 21 league games. However, other formats are also being discussed.

Sounds wonderful. I'm sure this fantastic new easy to understand system will make clubs and fans take the whole thing much more seriously.

E17yid · Jul 19, 2017

Don't know the structure yet so I'm on the fence but we've got to try and bridge the glaring financial gap somehow. This brings in an extra £500k pa for each club in TV rights alone which will be welcome I'm sure.

Looks like it's a 2 conference system instead of the French model but still not sure on some of the logistics.

I watched the Kings v Cheetahs last week. Must've been one of the weirdest games I've seen in a while but they'll certainly bring some decent players over.

werty · Jul 19, 2017

Will the SA teams be eligible for the European Cups?

E17yid · Jul 19, 2017

werty said:
Will the SA teams be eligible for the European Cups?

I can't see the English or French being too happy about it and imagine they'll block it but I'm not sure.

Wish we just had a European super league but that'll never happen.

talkshowhost86 · Jul 19, 2017

E17yid said:
Don't know the structure yet so I'm on the fence but we've got to try and bridge the glaring financial gap somehow. This brings in an extra £500k pa for each club in TV rights alone which will be welcome I'm sure.

Looks like it's a 2 conference system instead of the French model but still not sure on some of the logistics.

I watched the Kings v Cheetahs last week. Must've been one of the weirdest games I've seen in a while but they'll certainly bring some decent players over.

I'll be interested to see how this helps money wise. 6m is a start but not nearly enough, and I remain to be convinced that it will bring in much more tv money. Will people in South Africa care? Will people start to turn off as it becomes a bit daft in terms of structure?

If it helps financially then it's worth doing but I think that's a big if.

I'd also prefer a European League so we can see the full teams more often and see them in more competitive matches.

It will never happen though.

talkshowhost86 · Jul 19, 2017

werty said:
Will the SA teams be eligible for the European Cups?

They really shouldn't be.

I think they'll carry on playing in the Currie Cup.

E17yid · Jul 19, 2017

talkshowhost86 said:
I'll be interested to see how this helps money wise. 6m is a start but not nearly enough, and I remain to be convinced that it will bring in much more tv money. Will people in South Africa care? Will people start to turn off as it becomes a bit daft in terms of structure?

If it helps financially then it's worth doing but I think that's a big if.

I'd also prefer a European League so we can see the full teams more often and see them in more competitive matches.

It will never happen though.

The answer to both your questions is I don't know. We'll just have to see how it pans out I guess and what structure/format they go for.

The TV money is pretty much confirmed, I think. £36m over the 6 year contract. I also think there should be some half decent interest in SA but I'm just guessing and putting myself in their shoes as a fellow rugby fan and asking myself if the roles were reversed and say the blues and Dragons were put into super rugby would I watch it, I think I would, when I could.

You're right about it not being enough. I know of props signed by Bristol who's salary would barely be covered by that £500k, that's the financial gulf we're dealing with and when you look at what your Farrell's Halfpenny's are on we're not even close.

First season I just want to see them compete, I guess. I think we've made a deal whereby they don't just filter their top talent into Super Rugby and leave us with the dregs but let's be honest, these Saffers are no different from any other professional, they want to earn as much money as they can and if they play well in the pro 12 they know they can get a pay day in England and France so while this is a step in the right direction ( from a financial standpoint) I'm not sure what difference it's going to make in retaining our best players.

Like I say, focussing on the rugby I just hope the competitive nature of the pro 12 isn't diminished. We've had several winners over the last 6 or 7 years and it will be good to see the Kings and Cheetahs at the top end of the table rather than the bottom but 1st season will be hard for them, I reckon.

DannyNZ · Jul 22, 2017

These were two of the poorest teams in the Super competition so unless the SA teams improve dramatically then they will be poor additions to the European competition.

E17yid · Jul 22, 2017

Good weekend of Super Rugby. Lions (top seeds) up against the Sharks later followed by Stormers (3rd seed) v Chiefs.

Hurricanes comfortably beating the Brumbies (who were the 4th seed) yesterday.

E17yid · Jul 22, 2017

DannyNZ said:
These were two of the poorest teams in the Super competition so unless the SA teams improve dramatically then they will be poor additions to the European competition.

There's several other teams on their level though. Interestingly the Kings have averaged more turnovers per game (9) which is more than any other side in Super Rugby and the Cheetahs averaged more offloads per game (16) which is the higher than any other side.

They'll struggle in the first season but they'll bring speed, physicality, good fitness levels and they'll be very competitive in the 2 areas I mentioned. Once they get settled they could be contenders imo.

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