FORMER Manager Watch: Nuno Espírito Santo

I said it under Mourinho, our issues lie with the players and the atmosphere they create. Be it, lack of ability, attitude or just in a surrounding where they’ve been at for years and coasting. It’s all well and good bringing in better players, and yes we do need that, the issue is allowing the players that are not wanting to reinvent themselves for another manager (For some their 4th) and happy with coming in and ‘tick’ over every day.

We need to be ruthless in our next 2 windows on our outgoings, the only way of getting players to buy into any new manager is to get people here that are hungry for the cause. Some will never get that feeling back at our club and with any work place, those just bring the place down and others around you.

Any new manager will have problems at this club, unless they are backed with having players that are prepared to fight for the club and him as the manager. We all know the players I’m talking about, it desperately needs to happen in order to have any sort of promising build to any new manager and project.

Nuno isn’t the right man for the club, but is also hampered (like with any manager that comes here), that a lot of players are not the right fit for the club and way past their sell by dates in terms of ability and commitment.

Now, Nuno seems to be the Levy of managers. It's a similar mentality: we've not been spanked by West Ham, so while it's not good, it's not a disaster either.

Except it was a disaster. Any other manager would've made substitutions earlier. He would change things up just to keep the opposition guessing. Instead, just like Levy does, he decided to coast. And then, after conceding, he made some substitutions. Too little, too late.

This was the match equivalent of the 2018 summer window.

We're just a bad football team. No creativity, no idea, no goals.

There are two sides in the top half with a negative goal difference: Tottenham and Arsenal. Arsenal were thumped 5:0 by City which skews things up. Since then, they have not lost a game.

That being said, we should only sack him if we have someone lined up. But we better have someone fast. It shouldn't be that hard. Yes, we're a shitshow right now, but 99% of football clubs are directionless and make chaotic decisions. It has rarely stopped managers from earning money.

Of the top of my head, Lucien Favre is a coach that improves players, never flops and has an instant impact on the team.

Nuno brief was simple. Steady the ship, make the team hungry to win, improve players. That would be enough. Forget free-flowing attacking football. Just make them look like a happy football team. We might have a similar points tally, but it'd feel much different.

Nuno doesn't deliver and it really doesn't seem like we might turn the corner any time soon. If we keep playing the way we do, we might get some points from the Evertons of this league, but at best, it's just mediocrity.

No club should be happy with mediocrity. Levy, of course, is happy. Why wouldn't he, he just found his soulmate.

freeeki said:

Yes.

I accept that where we’re at is 6th in the league with some obvious on-field issues which need addressing.

I’ve been very clear throughout that I think Nuno is considered a short term caretaker option by the club, and barring a catastrophe he’ll be replaced toward the end of the season.

Let’s be clear - the popular option on here, namely sacking a 2nd manager in the space of 15 premier league games while sat 6th in the league with nobody lined up to take over is not a “solution”, by any metric.

It is knee jerk, short sighted, fantasy football nonsense.

So, what’s your solution?

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Fair enough, to some extent I don’t really disagree with you.

My problem is that for the first time in my life I no longer prioritise spurs. It used to be everything to me, probably didn’t not watch a match for 16 years since I was 11 or 12 and we made the decision to get a massive satellite dish so we could get Digitalb, then Tring and then all manner of Middle Eastern streaming services.

I didn’t even watch the game on Sunday, I’ve started doing other things on the weekend, try to avoid the score and watch the match in the evening. For the first time all season someone told me (indirectly) the result and I just wasn’t even bothered.

Between me, my dad and my brother we’ve spent £3600 on season tickets and I don’t even feel like I want to go anymore.

So, I guess after all that, my point is that for me, I’m lucky. I’ve found other things that I can do on the weekend that provide me with enjoyment. For others though, it’s not always the case and so while it may only be a game, watching this generally dreadful football week in week out becomes genuinely depressing.

The thought that the players don’t care and the manager has no energy on the touch line could be construed as toxic bile but the reality could be more a case of believing the above is true is genuinely ruining people’s weekends.

So while he is probably just a caretaker, to do nothing is to commit to however long is to come of this absolutely gut wrenchingly boring style of football.

Now there are no guarantees that a new manager will get more out of these players and I know you like to say about sacking mourinho did no good etc but there are genuine attacking based managers out there who may not lead us to a higher finish but they would actually try to entertain the fans with exciting front foot football.

So my solution is, get in a caretaker, someone with something to prove whereby the job could almost be an audition, someone who has a history of playing in an attacking way and give them until the end of the season to prove themselves.

I think that is a better solution than to do nothing and continue with this depressing state of affairs we’ve managed to find ourselves in.

Joshua shepherd said:

So my solution is, get in a caretaker, someone with something to prove whereby the job could almost be an audition, someone who has a history of playing in an attacking way and give them until the end of the season to prove themselves.

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This is literally what we have, and despite the disproportionate vitriol on here every time we let a goal in, he’s doing a reasonable job.

Not a world beating job. Not an incredible job. Not a mind blowingly spectacular job.

But an adequate one, which has put us 6th in the league with a winnable run of games coming up.

Everyone on here would have taken that at the beginning of the season from a manager who is transparently only here for a year.

Every. Single. Person.

Teddy Klinsmann said:

May have been posted already, apologises - but this is shots on target so far. DNA should be replaced with DNS - do not shoot. Appalling for a club, that might not win titles regularly, but has a history of entertaining it’s fans.

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freeeki said:

This is literally what we have, and despite the disproportionate vitriol on here every time we let a goal in, he’s doing a reasonable job.

Not a world beating job. Not an incredible job. Not a mind blowingly spectacular job.

But an adequate one, which has put us 6th in the league with a winnable run of games coming up.

Everyone on here would have taken that at the beginning of the season from a manager who is transparently only here for a year.

Every. Single. Person.

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I think you’re wrong mate. I think you’re misunderstanding what people want. They don’t want to be bored to death, they want to be entertained. I’m not sure I’ve been entertained once this season. Maybe the Newcastle game.

yidboy123 said:

One common denominator....

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They all managed Tottenham? All their names contained vowels? They all didn’t like marmite?

coopsieyid said:

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Shows you how much this was all bollocks along with Levy's speech reference DNA all done to get fans onside and it didn't work.

coopsieyid said:

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This is my favourite bit.

"What we want is to make our fans proud, to make them enjoy their players, love their players, this is our focus, let's make our fans proud, to create a good atmosphere, help the players throughout the season and every moment. I think they will enjoy. This is what I am telling the players, 'Let's enjoy ourselves'. Our football must be the reflection in the mirror of what we are doing, what we want to do and I am totally positive the fans are going to love it."

We are all really enjoying ourselves....

shelfboy68 said:

Shows you how much this was all bollocks along with Levy's speech reference DNA all done to get fans onside and it didn't work.

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Not really tbh. It is just that he has failed in doing what he wanted to do.

Pekoni said:

Not really tbh. It is just that he has failed in doing what he wanted to do.

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And levy?

shelfboy68 said:

And levy?

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Well, I think he genuinely wants the best for the club too, but like Nuno, he has failed too.

To the tune of 'Bread of Heaven'
'Daniel Levy, Daniel Levy
Where's our DNA
Where's our fucking DNA'

When I hear the phrase entitled fans I wonder what this phrase actually means. I have payed alot of money supporting spurs for 3 decades and except for an FA cup I can barely remember and 2 Mickey mouse cups we have nothing to show for it and we all get reminded of this on a regular basis! I accept other clubs are richer and will be able to buy better players and trophies but I expect our club win or lose to try to score goals and attack even if we leak a few more goals. I have always been proud of spurs for playing attacking football but I just don't feel anything at the moment and if that makes me entitled well fuck it. We need a dramatic change of leadership from the very top.

Pekoni said:

Well, I think he genuinely wants the best for the club too, but like Nuno, he has failed too.

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He wants the best for enic mate.

shelfboy68 said:

He wants the best for enic mate.

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Yes, but wouldn't you think that what's best for enic can be best achieved by doing what's best for their most important asset? Look, what I wanted to say is that he has failed from a football perspective. This discussion should be continued in the enic thread.

I don't remember any manager in recent times get as short a rope as Nuno. And I think this is for very good reason. This is the product of disharmony and unhappiness at the football side of the football side of the club for some time. We have had a three year period of things seemingly spiralling out of our wonderful glory years from 2016/2017 onwards. Not feeling as connected, losing our faith in one of our greatest ever managers, a failure at the top table of the European football. A failed tenure at one of the world's greatest ever club managers. A Really awful managerial search. This culminates. The bad feeling takes a long time to resolve.
Nuno has ben appointed and it seems to be when he is spoken about or when everyone writes on him own this forum they mention that he "wouldn't have been their choice". Fine. Great. I understand and I don't disagree.
Having said that we are in the top six in the PL - for the record that is at least 4 places above where I thought we would be at this stage. He has made some progress from what I can see though - there morale and the atmosphere looks better and far less toxic than it did at the end of Jose's tenure. We are defer ding better as a unit.
Now for the tough bits. Attacking wise we seem to be reactive to mistakes of the opposition rather than having a set attacking pattern but let's be honest we knew that would be the way when we appointed him didn't we ?
I am not sure he knows the best personnel for the system he wants to play but again that is OK because he has been in the job since this summer - he hasn't been given any time. Surely that has to come into it.
I am not going to mention the "nice man" thing too much as that seems to cause so much vitriol.
If we are to sack the admittedly 7th / 8th choice manager now then who are we to appoint ? the 9th/ 10th / 11th ? There must be a plan and we have been guilty of not having that too much in the past.
As I said I am not sure if he is the man for the long term but this is the start of a process and this after a systematic deterioration over the last 2-3 years. We need to take stock and think about what we want next. I think Trix said he would judge after or at November and I am very happy to do the same. I think we will qualify for the knockouts for the ECL and hopefully we will get through the League cup tie on Wednesday and if we are we are in decent shape.
I don't for a second think he is a the shocking manager some think he is - I just think we are fatigued and angry about the last 30 months and he is bearing the brunt of it. COYS.

Feels like we’re wasting another season.

Matty miller said:

Feels like we’re wasting another season.

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We already did than when we hired Nuno. No one actually believed we would fight for a top4 spot surely???

freeeki said:

This is literally what we have, and despite the disproportionate vitriol on here every time we let a goal in, he’s doing a reasonable job.

Not a world beating job. Not an incredible job. Not a mind blowingly spectacular job.

But an adequate one, which has put us 6th in the league with a winnable run of games coming up.

Everyone on here would have taken that at the beginning of the season from a manager who is transparently only here for a year.

Every. Single. Person.

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I sincerely think the points you have put across in so many posts touched on just certain contexts but not the bigger picture.

I understand your point on no better options if we sack Nuno now - but is this really a better option of keeping him if we are going to lose more points, because really not many fans out there (perhaps you) optimistically think we are able to win games without dropping a similar amount of points.

Our current table position may not be that bad, but let's not forget we are probably one of the worse in many other areas and stats many had repeatedly posted which Sky Sports love compiling. As the season goes, we will definitely be in a very bad position in the league table if those stats continue. But because we can still only have one shot and possibly win 1-0, your point still stands - is that really a reasonable job though, seriously? We have been, and are now, expected to be facing shots from opponents at an alarming rate without creating chances ourselves. Is that really adequate?

I am very sure not everyone would have taken the current situation at the beginning of the season. If any, Levy with his DNA speech, Nuno with this proud speech, Paratici with his rebuilding acts and speech lifted and gave us hope to have something to believe in and look forward to. That is definitely a lot more and higher in expectation than the current plight we are at which you deemed satisfactory.

Bar the top 3 clubs at the moment, the rest of the teams are collectively inconsistent this season. If that season when we were competing with Leicester for the title was seen as an anomaly because the rest of the clubs suck, can we not kid ourselves that we are 6th at the moment also because of the same reason?

And there really isn't a disproportionate vitriol every time we conceded. The resentment here and everywhere is because of what's missing - we are not creating enough, we are not adapting tactically enough, we are not shooting enough, we are not scoring enough, we are not making changes quick enough and more and more and more and more..... The goals we conceded are the result of these missing elements and it's obvious Nuno had the greatest share of responsibility for these shortcomings. Have you seen we performed worse and more boring than other past managers/coaches? AVB era? Sherwood times? We looked mildly exciting and scored more goals then.

You can applaud Nuno for all the good, in fact I think many fans here have been cutting much slack for Nuno because he is supposedly lovely and likeable. But let's not ignore the greater worse he has implemented and/or not addressed due to his limited capability the fans have been calling him out for, and then disrespectfully branded these calls as poison, knee jerk, short sighted or fantasy football nonsense.