Jose Mourinho

Locotoro said:

I'm far from retired friend, and whilst not trying to blow my own trumpet my approach has thus far been very successful at getting results since I'm now the youngest snr director in the organisation I work. My point is that I pick my own team and explain what my expectations are. I don't care where they are or what time they start or finish, they get their job done to a high standard and they do their best to find solutions to problems and they are rewarded well for it. It's about developing the right mentality.

Now at the risk of becoming a parody of David Brent, I'll shut up

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That sounds like management speak David, and I know you hate that.

rez9000 said:

I initially read that last line as, 'At least when I was alive, we did the double'. Nearly did myself an injury!

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Sometimes this season that's how it feels.

jezz said:

So if the whole team if failing they get a pip.
And the manager gets a bonus.
Sounds about right in 2021.

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No you’re putting words into my mouth that I’ve never said.
If a team is underperforming then the manager goes on a PIP. However going by the analogy that was started in regards to corporate management, we have players that have been on ‘PIPs’ for 2-3 years and still here, yet 2 managers have been/are being dismissed, after 12-16 months of poor performance.

That is a fundamental issue for whoever is hiring these managers to fail, by not addressing the clear recruitment flaws that affect the team and any manager.

However you’re probably right about managers bonus in today’s world ? I wouldn’t know as thankfully no longer one.

TEESSIDE1 said:

He plays a 352... a formation we don’t have to players for. A major overhaul would be required before we can be competent with this formation.

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Doherty is a RWB and Regullion is basically a LWB.

But sure we might need a few players like another CB and a few strikers

Why is every ad on this site Richard Branson in lipstick.
What kinda deal with the devil have the site admin made

rez9000 said:

But how do we calculate that? What date do we flick over from 'not enough' to 'enough'? It's not black and white is what I'm saying.

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When the manager says they can have the ball we'll take the points.
Then a few months later when it's not working starts chucking the same players under the bus.

Seafordian Spurs said:

I see they're playing a European heavy weight there.

We can't beat the farmers in front of us last night with a two goal advantage doubt Nagelsmann can do much with 'Winksy', Dier, Davies, Sissy and the rest of the clapped out no hopers that is Spurs.

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Our squad is a lot stronger than leipzigs. It’s called coaching! Something mourinho doesn’t do

Locotoro said:

I disagree.
The player's fitness, technical ability, motivation and fundamental progression is entirely their own responsibility.

The manager tells them, individually and collectively, how and where the team needs to improve and gives the training to enable that. The manager selects the appropriate team on a project by project basis in order to outperform their rivals/competition.

The manager checks in with players to tell them if they have performed well and rewards them appropriately and if they are not doing well expresses this and tells them still how to improve.

That's exactly what I do as a manager with my team. If I think one is not pulling their weight I'll tell them and expect an improvement because they know when they work hard I've got their back they get rewarded well.

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That is exactly how proper management works, and when you have given an individual multiple opportunities to improve, yet they don't, that is when you come to the decision to cut them loose.

We could reel off a fairly long list of players that have had multiple opportunities, under both JM and Poch, who have consistently failed to deliver.

The problem in Football is the fixed term contract. A player can metaphorically flip the bird to the manager, even the Chairman, and not face the sack, they'd just not get the contract renewed. As a result of this, they can down tools on a manager they don't like with a high likelihood that it'll get the manager sacked, then perform for the new manager to get what they want. Unfortunately, these players, as we've seen ourselves, are not good enough to be 1st team regulars, so they might get some game time early doors under a new manager, but they'll soon be back on the bench/in the reserves because they're simply not good enough. Then the cycle repeats itself until that manager gets sacked.

This isn't a solving JM of any blame btw, but what I can't get my head around is how early in the season we were playing with a solid defensive structure. Everyone knew their place and we were setting those traps that counterattack Football requires, then we just stopped doing it.
Then after a change of tact, with a more proactive front foot approach that saw us put a number of teams to the sword, we've once again just stopped doing it.

They were doing both well, before they inexplicably stopped, so it tells me that it was coached and they were carrying out the instructions. But they stopped doing both for no discernible reason. We were winning games with both approaches, so why stop?

One thing is for certain, they weren't instructed to stop.

So I still think he will be sacked, the alternative will be to effectively give away these "bad apple" players as no one will pay the wages their on for the performance level they've displayed. So, as I said previously, I feel we have some very dark days ahead because these players won't be leaving us anytime soon. The ones that will are the ones we don't want to leave.

Rout-Ledge said:

The last time we changed managers (before Jose) was to Poch, so this doesn’t really make sense.

What you really mean is that things went bad under Poch and Jose couldn’t fix it.

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Meaning we still don’t win anything.

jezz said:

When the manager says they can have the ball we'll take the points.
Then a few months later when it's not working starts chucking the same players under the bus.

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I'm sorry, jezz I'm having trouble grasping what you mean. Can you expand on that because I don't see the relevance?

Hercules said:

Absolutely no excuse!
I have backed him all the way!

I am now ‘Josè out!’ Brigade-No knee jerk!
can’t defend him and this SHIT anymore??

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I'm wondering if you're still of this view now you've had time to consider the situation and seen the lloris interview?

Locotoro said:

I'm wondering if you're still of this view now you've had time to consider the situation and seen the lloris interview?

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Still am!

ralphs bald spot said:

me as a supporter i don't give a toss what Lloris thinks - the results and performance are shit and they are the only relevant thing at any football club what else are you judgiing things on? I don't understand where you are coming from its the manager responsibility to win football matches he isn't doing that the players are lost what else do you want to happen before enough is enough - the players are not playing for him the dressing him is clearly divided there are glaring problems but that is what the manager is there to sort out.

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Weren't you one of those quoting our Captain from the 60's?
Anyway, it's not the Managers responsibility to win matches, that is the players, as they're the ones on the pitch. It's the manager's responsibility to provide them the platform from which they can then execute.

The dressing room is divided because there are certain players who think they should be first team regulars, but don't have to put the requisite effort in to earn that right.

This isn't supposition, this is fact. These players will only be onside with the manager if they're starting games in the Prem regardless of their level of performance, so there isn't a single manager in World Football who could mollify these players and still expect to be challenging at the level we expect.

JM will be gone, it's the line of least resistance, but so will the next manager until the contracts of these players expire, or we manage to sell them off wholesale and allow him to bring in the players he wants to fulfill his remit.

Dark days ahead indeed.

rez9000 said:

I'm sorry, jezz I'm having trouble grasping what you mean. Can you expand on that because I don't see the relevance?

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The quote is from Mourhino when we beat city and the squad were good enough

jezz said:

So if the whole team if failing they get a pip.
And the manager gets a bonus.
Sounds about right in 2021.

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Read it again.

If the whole team underperformed then the manager doesn't meet his required remit, in which case the focus is on the manager not managing the team correctly.

If you have certain individuals underperforming then they get the PiP, providing them the opportunity, guidance and training required to help them raise their game. If they don't then they get removed, otherwise they can have a detrimental effect on the entire team.

Kind of resonates with what we're seeing at the moment.

jezz said:

The quote is from Mourhino when we beat city and the squad were good enough

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Forgive me, I've not had any sleep for about a day and a half so I'm a bit addled, but I didn't see your quote - can't find it now either. And I'm not sure how it relates to the point I raised about the time a manager needs to fix a squad with the issues that have been raised recently by Hugo.

Apologies for not getting it, but I'm really not getting what you're trying to say.

Ionman34 said:

Anyway, it's not the Managers responsibility to win matches, that is the players, as they're the ones on the pitch. It's the manager's responsibility to provide them the platform from which they can then execute.

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This caught my eye and I don't think I agree, but would like to know more. The manager picks the team, the tactics and the subs on the day. Yes, he can only work with what he has but to absolve him of all blame is a really interesting take.

What responsibility does the manager have then for his £13M (or whatever vast amount it may actually be) and are you seeing him deliver on this at the moment?

rez9000 said:

It's even worse if this line by The Doc has any truth to it (obviously we don't know, but it's not an unfeasible idea):


So what's to stop the hierarchy from intervening later, under a different manager? How can a coach or manager work if they don't have the freedom to shape the squad in whatever way they see fit?

Would, say Nagelsmann, with the big clubs of Europe sniffing around him, accept that kind of restriction and choose to take the job?

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That's a constant at most clubs I think. Where does that decision-making power reside? Can Spurs, for example, afford to drop 10-15m on the perceived value of a player because he isn't in the manager's plans? I guess not. We don't typically do discounts and the precedent it would set for our future asking prices is probably unsustainable and incompatible for/with the club's business model. "We make stars. We do not buy them" is a Levy quote (I think). That's another question, as I don't think we have followed that particularly well of late. Re: incoming managers. I can't believe the model isn't articulated, but you could also argue that it should be patently obvious or part of the dd for any incoming manager.

muppetman said:

This caught my eye and I don't think I agree, but would like to know more. The manager picks the team, the tactics and the subs on the day. Yes, he can only work with what he has but to absolve him of all blame is a really interesting take.

What responsibility does the manager have then for his £13M (or whatever vast amount it may actually be) and are you seeing him deliver on this at the moment?

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Who's absolving him of blame?

rez9000 said:

That's not what I asked, but refusing to entertain any other thinking but your own devalues any weight your opinion may carry with me at least. What are you hoping to convince me (or anyone else) of? I'm sure I can guess what your response to that is - that you don't care what anyone thinks of your viewpoint or you of anyone else's.

And that just means you're not discussing anything, buddy - you're just repeating your point and not exploring anything. We're aware of your point. It's been clear for the last 16 months and has been set in stone without any alteration for that time. You must agree that even for a drivelling jelly-brain like me that's enough time to take it on board. It's not a difficult position to grasp.

If the venting brings you ease then more power to you, but I'd politely ask that you don't do it off the back of my posts as there's little to discuss if you're not willing to entertain an opposing view. My mistake was thinking that you wanted to debate, but it seems not. That's what I'm here for - to enjoy a debate, and to do it with people I share something with.

It's saddening to say, but I really see no value in discussing this issue with you as it's a bit like those times when one's buttonholed by an angry drunk who just wants to vent his spleen at you. He doesn't know what he's doing, you don't want to be there - it's lose-lose for all involved.

I'm sure we'll see eye-to-eye on other issues, but on this one there's little value here for either of us.

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what is your question I don't understand what you are taking about - what debate you want? Do you think he is doing a good job? What do you want to explore exactly - it is about wining football matches isi it not? We have been through the tactics of lack of and you might think he is a genius but what you can't argue about is that the last two performances and many before it have been abysmal . The man gets paid to win football matches fuck me call me a drunk whatever you smart ass want to do but your more intransigent than I am