Match Threads Arsenal vs Spurs - Match Thread - Day 28

rez9000 · Mar 14, 2021

WiganSpur said:
No I agree it’s not all his fault but he has a degree of responsibility in that no doubt hence why I’ve turned on Jose tonight. I don’t think there is a way back for him now, we might as well give another coach a chance to do the impossible and bury the classic Spurs mentality once and for all.

It's not as easy as that, Wigs. You must have worked somewhere where morale is low? You get small ups and downs on a day-to-day basis but there's always a cynicism, a lethargy about the place. No-one ever gets really fired up or enthused about the work they do. Even if you bring in new people, the attitude spreads. I've seen this most clearly in my career as a civil servant - no matter who the manager of a team is, if they've been beaten down, if they've had the stuffing knocked out of them, you can chop and change managers till you're blue in the face - you could get the strictest disciplinarian in or the easiest-going arm-around-the-shoulder, 'just call me Steve' type but the attitude remains. It takes ages to turn it around.

We can say that Mourinho hasn't turned this attitude around, in the same way Poch feel victim to it. The point of the matter is that it's simply not going to be done in a short space of time and expecting it to happen under another manager's aegis is unrealistic. So what do we do? Sack the manager who, for whatever faults he may have, has already started the job of moulding his squad, or throw the whole thing out the window, get another person in who will then want time for his remoulding, while that attitude remains within the now-partially altered squad? It's catch 22.

guiltyparty · Mar 14, 2021

Dirtysanchez6 said:
Who did we beat in them 5 games though ? When was the last time we beat a team that on paper looked a tough game ? Honestly it was well before Xmas

stormfly · Mar 14, 2021

alexn_spurs said:
Or us finishing 4th, Liverpool winning CL (outside top 4) and Arsenal winning EL. Unlikely but not out of the realms of possibility when Spurs are concerned

Nah, Chelsea will finish 4th, Liverpool will win the CL and we’ll win Europa.

ardiles · Mar 14, 2021

freeeki said:
Same.

Let’s sack the manager.

And replace him with Hank :cautious:

Gilzean at the near post · Mar 14, 2021

I'm not sure whether our passive performance was down to Mourinho tactics or Arsenal were just better on the ball? If the former it's so underwhelming, dour and dissapointing and we need to be braver

Also you need to pick your best eleven for this match and Doherty, rotation or no rotation should not be starting

Worrying that a player of N'Dombele's quality is unable to influence the flow of tbe match

If bringing on Sissoko was the answer then we are asking the wrong question - poor decision

Gbspurs · Mar 14, 2021

alfie103 said:
He was abysmal today. He can't have any arguments about being subbed.

Can't think of a single thing he did wrong once he had the ball. If you don't get the ball to players like that, you get a poor performance. The fact that Ndombele and Hojbjerg were so shit set the tone.

Dirtysanchez6 · Mar 14, 2021

guiltyparty said:

Exactly

slartibartfast · Mar 14, 2021

nico97531 said:
Always the tactics, do you have any idea what the tactics were? Do you think it’s the tactics that had caused us to not have any fight in the midfield and lost every 2nd ball until the last 10 minutes? It’s bloody obvious the players didn’t want it as much as arsenal did, the tactics didn’t cause us to be out worked by them lot the players did. I am also not defending Jose as I think it’s still his fault that the team wasn’t motivated albeit it’s a fking derby.

I am worried what’s going to happen in the league cup final or if we draws any decent opposition in the Europa, just can’t see how he’s going to change this team‘s mentality but ultimately he’s the one that needs to find a solution

Nonsense.
Do you really believe players are just going out there and doing what they like? Playing negative football whilst being told to attack?
If so then thats very damning on Joses ability as a coach.
They're playing as instructed which is also very damning on Joses ability as a coach.
I watched us for years as a very poor mid table team playing against title winning Arsenal teams, not that load of shit we just went up against, but we NEVER used to go 80mins only having had 1 fucking shot!!!
That performance was not on our players ability, nor on this Arsenals ability. It was because the coach has a defeatist mentality and sets up not to lose. He focuses far too much on what the opposition are going to do and how to deal with that rather than impose his own team onto them.
I posted after 20mins its hard to win when your first thought is to pass backwards. These stinkball tactics are coming from the coach. Nobody else.
The sooner he is gone the better. It's just a shame we'll probably be seeing the back of Kane at the same time.

rez9000 · Mar 14, 2021

Mark_147 said:
As you pointed out there was no intensity in that game from either side, so Arsenal did not pin us back we sat back by Mourinho’s instructions.

That's not a logical conclusion at all. The things that weren't happening today but that did happen against the likes of Palace were all down to the intensity, which the manager can't directly control. As was made plain earlier in the season - everyone and his dog was saying that he wasn't instructing them to sit back, but that it was happening anyway. This is simply down to our squad being fearful under pressure.

DiscoD1882 · Mar 14, 2021

Playing docherty. Played into their hands. He was getting Beaten all ends up all game. And degated Bales influence because he had to cover for him. Aurier gets forward. Turns thier defence. So in have no idea what mourinho was thinking. Unless it was win a cup
And keep my job.

WiganSpur · Mar 14, 2021

alexn_spurs said:
Or us finishing 4th, Liverpool winning CL (outside top 4) and Arsenal winning EL. Unlikely but not out of the realms of possibility when Spurs are concerned

I can tell you now we are not finishing 4th

anydange · Mar 14, 2021

guiltyparty said:

That’s a fucking awful statistic

Stav · Mar 14, 2021

EastLondonYid said:
How he thought all week that Doherty wasn't going to be fucked up by Tierney is a stackable offence in itself.

It's true. He does keep piling error on top of error with some of his decisions.

mrlilywhite · Mar 14, 2021

DenverSpur said:
You can’t keep excusing the players from a total lack of intensity in a NLD. Whether we were sent out to defend deep and hit them on the break or not doesn’t change the fact that in the first half especially the whole team played badly- they were second to every ball, didn’t close down players, couldn’t pass the ball accurately and as a team in the pitch failed to see that Doherty was out numbered in the right and help him out. The midfield was non existent, failed to help the defense and failed to create anything for the attack. You can argue the manager should do something but the players on the pitch have to step up and do something themselves

Oh, I'm not excusing the players - they were abysmal, no doubt. The thing is though playing in such a conservative fashion, which I feel was by design or instruction by the manager was always going to lead to this type of performance. Playing two attacking full-backs in this system was a fault of the manager. Playing an attacking winger who's track record for tracking back is non-existent given his age, etc was wrong. We were pressing when they encroached on our defensive line. The game was set up as early as the first minute - give up the ball and attack from defensive positions - everything that was questioned in the first few pages of the matchday thread about how he would line up. Failure to address the real problem at half time was on the manager - Tierney and Smith-Rowe was tearing Docherty apart, so he took Bale off in the game and replaced him Sissoko and thus taking away another attacking threat and replacing him with a defensive option to shore up Docherty's inadequacy at RB. The players are accountable, I'd agree - but he made the fundamental problems before we'd even kicked a ball.

Mark_147 · Mar 14, 2021

rez9000 said:
That's not a logical conclusion at all. The things that weren't happening today but that did happen against the likes of Palace were all down to the intensity, which the manager can't directly control. As was made plain earlier in the season - everyone and his dog was saying that he wasn't instructing them to sit back, but that it was happening anyway. This is simply down to our squad being fearful under pressure.

I'm sorry but Arsenal strength is getting the ball out wide and getting crosses into the box, and we played into their hands playing doherty.

shelfboy68 · Mar 14, 2021

slartibartfast said:
Nonsense.
Do you really believe players are just going out there and doing what they like? Playing negative football whilst being told to attack?
If so then thats very damning on Joses ability as a coach.
They're playing as instructed which is also very damning on Joses ability as a coach.
I watched us for years as a very poor mid table team playing against title winning Arsenal teams, not that load of shit we just went up against, but we NEVER used to go 80mins only having had 1 fucking shot!!!
That performance was not on our players ability, nor on this Arsenals ability. It was because the coach has a defeatist mentality and sets up not to lose. He focuses far too much on what the opposition are going to do and how to deal with that rather than impose his own team onto them.
I posted after 20mins its hard to win when your first thought is to pass backwards. These stinkball tactics are coming from the coach. Nobody else.
The sooner he is gone the better. It's just a shame we'll probably be seeing the back of Kane at the same time.

I think we are realising that Kane is likely to go why would he stay here for what?.
The club wins nothing and doesn't look likely to under the structure we have in place.

rez9000 · Mar 14, 2021

Mark_147 said:
I'm sorry but Arsenal strength is getting the ball out wide and getting crosses into the box, and we played into their hands playing doherty.

And it wouldn't have been much better with Aurier. Not because he's a bad player, but because he's attack-minded. Whoever we played on that flank, Arsenal would have (rightly) targeted it. The only option would have been not to play Bale at all. But given his recent form, you'd have been mad to do so.

So the choice comes down to, do you play a player at RB who's had a run of a few games where he seems to be developing a good partnership with his forward and who is best employed as a wing-back anyway, if you suspect the defence you're up against may leave gaps for you to exploit with that developing partnership; or a link Bale with a player who's just come back from injury and who played three days ago?

ardiles · Mar 14, 2021

There are a few player pairings that shouldn’t be used together although those same individuals could be paired with other players in the squad.

Sanchez + Dier

Sissoko + Winks

Doherty + Bale

ardiles · Mar 14, 2021

freeeki said:
He’s literally just said the first half was appalling.

And he also said that some players were hiding today. I guess Bale would be one of those players that he was referring to.

ardiles · Mar 14, 2021

rez9000 said:
He's just come back from injury. He played against Zagreb in midweek.

if Jose doesn’t feel that Aurier is ready to play yet, then I can’t see why he didn’t replace him with Tanganga on the bench.

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