The Mauricio Pochettino thread

Primativ · May 7, 2019

Shadydan said:
Apparantley yes because luck only applies to us because our rivals haven't taken advantage of us dropping points even though they've dropped point as well

You disagree that we have rarely comprehensively won games this season? I think it’s a legitimate criticism of our domestic performances

Shadydan · May 7, 2019

Primativ said:
You disagree that we have rarely comprehensively won games this season? I think it’s a legitimate criticism of our domestic performances

No I agree but you can say the same thing of our immediate rivals for the top four race, its a myopic argument that lacks context particularly if you use it to judge whether we deserve to finish top 4 - their performances need to be taken onto account as well.

Shadydan · May 7, 2019

Primativ said:
Yes but Neville is talking about how far they are from the title and where they “should” be. Not how far they are from us. You do realise we are also over twenty points away from the top and only a few points ahead of United? You make it sound like we are miles in front of them.

In any case the only relevance is that our rivals have let us off the hook. It doesn’t matter how much of a mess United are in, it’s how are we going to bridge the gap to the top.

He said that they're in the same position we were Pre Poch and doesn't like any of the players at the club. He virtually called for Woodward to step down and criticised literally everything about the club from top to bottom.

Whatever way you want to look at it we are in a far better position than them, yeah we are in need of a few new faces but generally we have what they don't have and that's structure and direction.

allatsea · May 7, 2019

Primativ said:
Completely agree. it is pure blind delusion to think this side gets anywhere near top 4 next season. Huge holes in our squad. We were playing kids like Skipp for goodness sake, players who are miles from being ready. We have carried woefully out of form players.

I’d also say that we have been relying on individual brilliance in moments from Son, Eriksen and Kane to win us games rather than having a consistent team strategy this season.

Apart from those moments of brilliance we’ve been pretty dire all season. Like really poor.

We’d have to admit luck has been on our side hugely this season. We’ve had some bad luck too of course, but by all intents and purposes United and or Arsenal should have easily overtaken us by now.

We should be sitting in 5th or 6th now having blown CL for next season in our new stadium. Then I’m sure these boards would be very different. The fact we have scraped our way to CL qualification shouldn’t paper over the so very obvious cracks we have in the squad.

Poch might be able to fool some fans with his words but he won’t fool me. We’ve been shite this season in the league by and large. He definitely shares big responsibility for that. The decline in many areas of our squad are there to see, our defence is far worse and our playing style is far worse. Ultimately he is the one who has control about shipping out injury prone players. That we were left relying on kids and players who aren’t good enough is on him. It’s no good just saying I wanted De Jong and if I can’t have him I want no one. That doesn’t solve our issues in the squad.

Whilst Poch deserves credit for getting this squad to stay top 4, I feel we’ve been very very fortunate. I don’t think we can turn around and say Poch plans for this season came off. His decision (and Levy?) to make no signings horribly backfired. We’ve looked leggy, slow, passive, out of ideas in far too many games.

Wembley was an easy excuse but we are back home now and still losing games.

Major work needed in the summer before we can genuinely say we can stay in top 4 let alone a title challenge for next season. Too many players in our squad who aren’t good or fit enough.

Really ?

These players that aren’t ‘good enough’ according to you have helped us get to the Semi-final of the Champions League and a likely top four finish once again.

Primativ · May 7, 2019

Shadydan said:
He said that they're in the same position we were Pre Poch and doesn't like any of the players at the club. He virtually called for Woodward to step down and criticised literally everything about the club from top to bottom.

Whatever way you want to look at it we are in a far better position than them, yeah we are in need of a few new faces but generally we have what they don't have and that's structure and direction.

I agree with Neville, but all that mess and they are only 4 points below us in the table? Isn't that a bit worrying from our perspective considering we have structure and direction....

At the end of the day, we've declined this season. I'd like to see the club and Poch do something about that in the summer, and that includes offloading the injury prone / no longer good enough, and signing some top players. Failure to do that and we will be at great risk of further decline. I think that is a sensible outlook and not one of pessimism. I don't see the requisite qaulity in our squad that will see us get close to Liverpool or City next season and as Liverpool have shown, you don't need loads of money. Yes they've spent a fair bit, but it's spent brilliantly over a number of years. We were doing that, but then we made some really bad signings and our spending stopped.

Steffen · May 7, 2019

When is his presser today?

Primativ · May 7, 2019

allatsea said:
Really ?

These players that aren’t ‘good enough’ according to you have helped us get to the Semi-final of the Champions League and a likely top four finish once again.

Not all of them obviously, but there are clear areas where yes, the players aren't good enough.

cjbyid · May 7, 2019

Steffen said:
When is his presser today?

Yep. Team usually fly out around midday so afternoon-ish.

BringBack_leGin · May 7, 2019

I find the whole ‘we’ve been lucky thing’ a bit odd. For years we bemoaned not having the character and determination to win when we’re not at our best, and now that we do so it’s luck?

It’s a very competitive league where all but the bottom 3/4 clubs are littered with very good players. Callum Wilson has better combined league goals + assists than any Spurs player yet plays for Bournemouth. Zaha is one of the highest rated attackers in the league, he plays for Crystal Palace. Southampton have players like Redmond and Ward Prowse who would not look out of place in all but the top two squads. We play in a very high level league, it just so happens that Manchester City have enormous quality in depth and Liverpool have ridden the crest of a wave Leicester style.

We’ve scored the fourth most goals and conceded the third fewest across 37 games so far. That’s not a team who is lucky, that’s consistency (even if the quality hasn’t always been there). If anything, our awful recent form, which I believe owes primarily to our unimaginably bad injury record, skews our performance statistics negatively and a greater argument could be made for us being unlucky, but the reality is that we’ve lost points we shouldn’t have too often to make that argument too.

If we’ve achieved top four (potentially top 3) for the fourth successive season, and are ranking high on both attacking and defensive stats, then we aren’t lucky, we are hitting par.

Shadydan · May 7, 2019

Primativ said:
I agree with Neville, but all that mess and they are only 4 points below us in the table? Isn't that a bit worrying from our perspective considering we have structure and direction....

At the end of the day, we've declined this season. I'd like to see the club and Poch do something about that in the summer, and that includes offloading the injury prone / no longer good enough, and signing some top players. Failure to do that and we will be at great risk of further decline. I think that is a sensible outlook and not one of pessimism. I don't see the requisite qaulity in our squad that will see us get close to Liverpool or City next season and as Liverpool have shown, you don't need loads of money. Yes they've spent a fair bit, but it's spent brilliantly over a number of years. We were doing that, but then we made some really bad signings and our spending stopped.

Considering we've had a load of injuries this season with key players missing for extended periods and we were the only team who were really collectively hampered from the WC burnout, the fact that we haven't brought anyone for 2 windows whilst letting go of an important player, the fact that we don't have anywhere near the resources as them and we played 80% of our home matches away from our stadium and our rivals still weren't able to take advantage says more about them than us don't you think?

In fact finishing top 4 with a game to go considering those circumstances can only been seen as a positive - look I don't have a problem with the consensus saying that we've declined, we have. But ignoring the mitigating circumstances as to why we find ourselves in this position only tells one side of the story, we're in a much better position than our immediate rivals and I haven't even mentioned Chelsea who face a transfer ban and will most probably lose their most influential player this summer.

CoopsieDeadpool · May 7, 2019

Primativ said:
But you’re being massively complacent. Can you seriously turn around to me and say this top 4 battle has been in control? Our form is relegation form. We should all intents and purposes be out of it by now. The only reason we aren’t is two fold. We scraped a few last minute 1 nil wins against shite sides over the course of the season, and arsenal have completely let us off the hook. We’ve even let Chelsea over take us in recent weeks.

I can’t have people say to me that we look like a comfortable top 4 side when we are playing like we’ve been playing. It’s not based in reality on what we are seeing.

Whilst last season and the season before, our stats and performances were good, I could understand people being confident. But after this shit show of a season? We’ve been really poor. Even Kane has had a poor output season. Aubameyang has even outscored him comfortably. We’ve declined in all areas of our stats and performances, the evidence is right in front of our eyes. All arsenal had to do was beat Brighton and we were minutes from dropping two points against them at home and we’d be basically not out of the top 4. We’ve got lucky. That’s a 4 point swing just there. I can’t believe how any Spurs fan can be confident about top 4 next season based on our current playing squad very likely minus two of our best players in Eriksen and Toby. We need major major work. We needed work last summer, I was saying it all summer, we didn’t and lo and behold we declined this season. If we don’t sort it out next summer we will decline even further.

It’s not hard to work out where the problems in our squad are. It’s quite clear. These issues urgently need addressing. Otherwise next season we will drop another level like we did this season.

I'm really not being complacent bud. I clearly stated that there's issues that need to be addressed, urgently.

My post was nothing more than an attempt to point out that, for the last 3 years, when the season has finished, this place has been full of posts saying things like "we got lucky & when the other clubs improve over the summer we'll be fucked and won't be that lucky again".

But I guess we remained lucky, because we still finished above all of those clubs come the end of the season.

We DO need to sort out the glaring issues within our squad & there's no way I'll believe or say differently.

CoopsieDeadpool · May 7, 2019

nicdic said:
We've been lucky?

Yes, for the last 3/4 years, seemingly.

swarvsta · May 7, 2019

@Primativ

I don’t think you can just point at us and say we have been lucky to win tight games. This is something all good teams do.

Liverpool have been great at times, but they have had loads of tight games they have found late winners in. Same for United, actually.

The fact is that this has been our toughest season in 4 years, in terms of injuries and a lack of form to key players.

The league is much tighter now. The gap between the top 3-6 teams is not as huge as it was in previous seasons. They all have way more money and have invested that in players.

It’s obvious building a £1billion stadium has affected us. Of course it would. You have to see the long-term here. I am shocked that people can’t. It’s like they must have no concept of finances, budgeting or investment.

If you asked me, would I want our new stadium, or for us to have spent £200million on players last year, I would pick the stadium.

Whether you like it or not, that was the most crucial thing for our club to do, and we have done it.

The acid test is where we go from here. But we have a CL semi final, and people are still moaning like mad. This season we have yet again overachieved.

Shadydan · May 7, 2019

We were 'lucky' when we lost the title to Leicester apparently because everyone else had a down year (even though it was only Chelsea who were below par) and we couldn't possibly finish top four again because everyone else will spend more money than us to improve their squads.

They did and it hasn't hampered us in relation to qualifying for the CL, in fact just to put this out there our spend under Pochettino since he's been here is £29m net, that's the 2nd lowest in the entire league over the same period after Southampton for God's sake.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1

City £563m
United £484m
Arsenal £260m
Everton £224m
Chelsea £205m
Liverpool £193m

If you want to talk about luck then everyone else is lucky that we've been going through the stadium build and pouring all our cash into that because if we wasn't we'd have been picking up trophies by now and well on our way to establishing ourselves as a legit contender for titles, year in year out.

JimmyG2 · May 7, 2019

We've done well
with just a little help from our 'friends'.
We may have done better
with some investment
but see Man.Utd and Arsenal
not necessarily.

Keep the team together
under Pochettino and Co.
A man with a clue
and a plan
buy 'em young and train 'em up
(Sessegnon, Madison, Tielemans, Brooke
add your own favourite here................

Many reasons/ excuses for not doing
as well as we might have liked
Pre-season, injuries, pressure on squad
lack of form/ investment
add your own favourite here.............................

Brilliant season
without ever consistently playing
decent football.

Well done Mauricio and the boys.

TINAP

nicdic · May 7, 2019

Can't believe some claim we're lucky when we had no pre-season, have played 3/4s of a season away from home, have had so many injuries, only been able to play our front four together in 10 out of (54?) games, etc.

John48 · May 7, 2019

Steffen said:
When is his presser today?

4.45pm according to SSN, but they're generally out by at least halfhour.

jurgen · May 7, 2019

Agree we've not been lucky, and although we've not been free-flowing at all this season, until our slump we were going great guns and our points total was so good we could have this massive wobble and survive.

What that shows is that injuries combined with squad weaknesses have really hit us hard, but also that when we have a fully fit team we can compete up there. Frustration again stems from not having suitable replacements in some key positions (which has been long known), and then not getting those final few top notch first teamers who can help us bridge the points gap to the others above us that was present even when we were in our best form.

But the accusation that we are bailed out by individual moments is silly because that is why you buy better players. Every top team has players that can pull off the improbable, Salah does, Hazard carries Chelsea, even a 'system' team like City have relied on some amazing moments of individual skill. Real Madrid won three CL trophies in a row that way.

I'm not saying that our system shouldn't get more fluid again, I hope it does of course, but unless you have the individuals of Barca you have to be more pragmatic at times, especially in the biggest games and that is what we've developed under Poch.

SpartanSpur · May 7, 2019

nicdic said:
Can't believe some claim we're lucky when we had no pre-season, have played 3/4s of a season away from home, have had so many injuries, only been able to play our front four together in 10 out of (54?) games, etc.

100%. It's been an absolute cluster**** of a season on and off the field from start to finish. The stadium delay and zero transfers really put a cloud over the club. Injuries and fatigue have completely disrupted our whole season and we've still dug it out. The players are heroes for their form up to February against the odds. We've had to use every asset available to us along the way (even a late GKN assist vs Fulham!).

Domestic form since Feb has been terrible but has come with the caveat of even worse injuries and fatigue. The CL run has been fantastic so far and along with the successful stadium opening it has now made the season one of progress in my opinion, and a huge performance and result on Weds could still make it a great one!

Plenty of work ahead but no way am I going to dwell on the negatives.

beats1 · May 7, 2019

nicdic said:
Can't believe some claim we're lucky when we had no pre-season, have played 3/4s of a season away from home, have had so many injuries, only been able to play our front four together in 10 out of (54?) games, etc.

I would say there is a definitely an element of luck, I think considering that we are on course, for our worst finish to a season under ENIC, we have been lucky that the other teams have been shite all season

We have got 10 points from the last 11 games, if we lose against everton, it will be the worst points haul to a season under ENIC that includes the Hoddle years btw!

Yea we have had a lot injuries but the reason why I think we have been lucky is that the players mentally turned off after losing to Burnley thinking that the CL qualification was in the bag. Then the last few games we have struggled to turn the switch back on and been frustrated as we have struggled with form.

Considering we have had a lot to deal with but in february we were in a very strong position and have been in relegation form since then!

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