The Mauricio Pochettino thread

'O Zio · Jan 8, 2019

Shadydan said:
Dude I think you're missing the point about how a stat is meant to work. Stats are taken in isolation and focuses on the main point being made, so how much we spent on infrastructure is irrelevant because the stat is about transfer spend not what you have interpreted what we've spent and where. There is literally no other context to remove it from because it's about transfer spend, you don't need to bring other factors in because it totally misses the original point.

And whether it's true or not - I don't think it's true anyway, I think he's probably referring to the league - I saw a stat saying that we have the lowest net spend in the last 5 years or something like that.

I understand how the stat works. My criticism is of how the stat is then continually used by people to come to the conclusion that we don't spend enough money and that Levy is stingy. You can't come to that conclusion by looking at transfer spend alone. Also the other stuff does matter because if the criticism is that we don't spend enough on transfers, then my answer to that would be that we're investing in things like the stadium in order to generate more money, which long term will mean we can spend money on transfers. So it is indirectly also an investment in the playing squad, but just a more long-term sustainable way of doing it than just signing a cheque for 100m on some big-name signing.

'O Zio · Jan 8, 2019

Indisguise said:
"Regarding Levy I think people misinterpret what he said to be honest. He's basically said that our transfer budget would remain ring-fenced but given that we usually don't spend much all that means is that we'll carry on not spending much while the stadium is being built, so we won't have any less of a transfer budget but that doesn't automatically mean we'll have any more of one either. Also regardless of what he says publicly, at the end of the day it still comes back to my original point that the transfer budget does not exist in isolation to the rest of the club's finances. It's quite clearly all linked just as it is an any clubs and/or company and it makes no sense to think otherwise. "

This is all a bit pointless because the matter at hand is what Poch thinks. If the Club continues to make inadequate investment in players then Poch is going to consider his options. That to me is as clear as day otherwise what's the point in saying it at all?

I take your point that ultimately what Poch thinks is what matters most, but like I said in my other post, we are trying to invest in the playing squad, but we're doing it indirectly by generating more money throguh the stadium etc. first. Ultimately all of this long-term plan will result in us investing more money in the squad because we'll have more money to spend full stop. Plus, the investments in training facilities etc. will help us to make players that we have better too as well as help reduce injuries/recovery times etc. etc. so all of this ultimately results in us investing in the squad. It's just that there are different ways to invest in the squad than just throwing money at players directly.

Indisguise · Jan 8, 2019

'O Zio said:
I take your point that ultimately what Poch thinks is what matters most, but like I said in my other post, we are trying to invest in the playing squad, but we're doing it indirectly by generating more money throguh the stadium etc. first. Ultimately all of this long-term plan will result in us investing more money in the squad because we'll have more money to spend full stop. Plus, the investments in training facilities etc. will help us to make players that we have better too as well as help reduce injuries/recovery times etc. etc. so all of this ultimately results in us investing in the squad. It's just that there are different ways to invest in the squad than just throwing money at players directly.

Sure, that's all well and good but we may lose our manager in the meantime. I think we'll just have to see what happens over the next year. I think we can at least agree that Poch is the man we need to hang on to.

'O Zio · Jan 8, 2019

Indisguise said:
Sure, that's all well and good but we may lose our manager in the meantime. I think we'll just have to see what happens over the next year. I think we can at least agree that Poch is the man we need to hang on to.

That's the gamble I suppose but I guess it just comes down to whether Poch trusts Levy to deliver in the end and sooner rather than later. You're right though, it's absolutely essential we keep Poch at the club one way or another.

vegassd · Jan 8, 2019

Indisguise said:
This is all a bit pointless because the matter at hand is what Poch thinks. If the Club continues to make inadequate investment in players then Poch is going to consider his options. That to me is as clear as day otherwise what's the point in saying it at all?

Poch was asked the question:
"You didn't buy anyone in the summer and you're hinting you may not sign anyone now, but you're in the title race, does that show the strength of your coaching ability and the strength of your squad? "

It's a relatively loaded question and something that's difficult to answer directly without looking too full of himself. It's also the type of question that he has been getting for the past six months or thereabouts. So I'm not surprised to see him try a different sort of answer - one that explains a bit about the plan that was put in front of him when he first joined.

The plan was get into the new stadium, get into the CL, then win the PL, seemingly in that order. Poch has hugely over-achieved and got the second part nailed before the first. But if the overall plan still requires the stadium part we need to be patient for a while longer. As others have said, Poch and his team are the victims of their own success.

am_yisrael_chai · Jan 8, 2019

'O Zio said:
I take your point that ultimately what Poch thinks is what matters most, but like I said in my other post, we are trying to invest in the playing squad, but we're doing it indirectly by generating more money throguh the stadium etc. first. Ultimately all of this long-term plan will result in us investing more money in the squad because we'll have more money to spend full stop. Plus, the investments in training facilities etc. will help us to make players that we have better too as well as help reduce injuries/recovery times etc. etc. so all of this ultimately results in us investing in the squad. It's just that there are different ways to invest in the squad than just throwing money at players directly.

Not to pick on you but I think this post best sums up what I'd really like to believe about the situation at our club. My negativity stems from the fact that I know that our owners are trying to sell the club which suggests that rather than the stadium being a staging post towards greater cash being available for the playing squad it is just a milestone to a sale for our owners. If, as I suspect, the sale doesn't go through then the logical conclusion is that ENIC will extract their economics in the way that the Glazers have done by leveraging the club and paying themselves dividends. I desperately hope I'm wrong and that ENIC are intending to hang around and see this project through.

Shadydan · Jan 8, 2019

'O Zio said:
I understand how the stat works. My criticism is of how the stat is then continually used by people to come to the conclusion that we don't spend enough money and that Levy is stingy. You can't come to that conclusion by looking at transfer spend alone. Also the other stuff does matter because if the criticism is that we don't spend enough on transfers, then my answer to that would be that we're investing in things like the stadium in order to generate more money, which long term will mean we can spend money on transfers. So it is indirectly also an investment in the playing squad, but just a more long-term sustainable way of doing it than just signing a cheque for 100m on some big-name signing.

But we don't spend enough money though lol if we want to challenge for titles consistently then we need to spend more, that is literally what the manager is saying

Although I can't agree that levy is stingy, he's just an investor and a smart businessman - like you said long term goals is the key but we're at a point now where we need to spend to push on

'O Zio · Jan 8, 2019

Shadydan said:
But we don't spend enough money though lol if we want to challenge for titles consistently then we need to spend more, that is literally what the manager is saying

Well exactly, he's saying we need to spend more if we want to win titles, but my point is we're working on that by doing all this stuff so that ultimately that's possible.

Indisguise · Jan 8, 2019

vegassd said:
Poch was asked the question:
"You didn't buy anyone in the summer and you're hinting you may not sign anyone now, but you're in the title race, does that show the strength of your coaching ability and the strength of your squad? "

It's a relatively loaded question and something that's difficult to answer directly without looking too full of himself. It's also the type of question that he has been getting for the past six months or thereabouts. So I'm not surprised to see him try a different sort of answer - one that explains a bit about the plan that was put in front of him when he first joined.

The plan was get into the new stadium, get into the CL, then win the PL, seemingly in that order. Poch has hugely over-achieved and got the second part nailed before the first. But if the overall plan still requires the stadium part we need to be patient for a while longer. As others have said, Poch and his team are the victims of their own success.

I understand what you're saying but he could also have answered the question in any number of ways that didn't address the issue of budget but instead he chose to say "we were bottom of the spending list in Europe". If that's not a prod to the Board about lack of support, I honestly don't know what else to take from it. He then goes on to say that we need to do things differently because we've got stuck in a rut for 5 years. Why say anything other than the team is doing well, I'm really proud of them and squad is strong enough for what I'm trying to achieve at the moment. There's no need to address our being at the bottom of the spending list.

Shadydan · Jan 8, 2019

Indisguise said:
I understand what you're saying but he could also have answered the question in any number of ways that didn't address the issue of budget but instead he chose to say "we were bottom of the spending list in Europe". If that's not a prod to the Board about lack of support, I honestly don't know what else to take from it. He then goes on to say that we need to do things differently because we've got stuck in a rut for 5 years. Why say that other than the team is doing well, I'm really proud of them and squad is strong enough for what I'm trying to achieve at the moment. There's no need to address our being at the bottom of the spending list.

JJ said that it was indeed a gentle nudge to the board...

We all said this was gonna happen when the Ud interest became apparent, he'll use this a leverage to try and get more backing from the board, Poch is a smart man, he's wanted by two clubs but is settled at Spurs, he knows that if he's not backed then the project falls apart then he can walk away without a blemish to his name.

Indisguise · Jan 8, 2019

Shadydan said:
JJ said that it was indeed a gentle nudge to the board...

We all said this was gonna happen when the Ud interest became apparent, he'll use this a leverage to try and get more backing from the board, Poch is a smart man, he's wanted by two clubs but is settled at Spurs, he knows that if he's not backed then the project falls apart then he can walk away without a blemish to his name.

I actually find it difficult to believe that it could be interpreted in any other way. It's as plain as the nose on anyone's face. We have failed to bring in almost all of his targets. It's ridiculous to think that this isn't about money.

SpartanSpur · Jan 8, 2019

Indisguise said:
I actually find it difficult to believe that it could be interpreted in any other way. It's as plain as the nose on anyone's face. We have failed to bring in almost all of his targets. It's ridiculous to think that this isn't about money.

Of course he wants us to invest more, to make us more competitive. It also doesn't mean he's going to immediately jump ship to Utd to chase the money, which is the leap many are taking.

He even had quotes yesterday saying he doesn't want oil money like Chelsea.

Levy has to deliver over the next couple of years for sure, but Jan may be too soon.

mark87 · Jan 8, 2019

I've printed off the article and taped it to my United supporting boss's computer screen while he is at lunch.

And now we play the waiting game...

Indisguise · Jan 8, 2019

SpartanSpur said:
Of course he wants us to invest more, to make us more competitive. It also doesn't mean he's going to immediately jump ship to Utd to chase the money, which is the leap many are taking.

He even had quotes yesterday saying he doesn't want oil money like Chelsea.

Levy has to deliver over the next couple of years for sure, but Jan may be too soon.

I agree but I don't think anything is beyond the realms of possibility at the moment. The fact that he's come out and said it now while he's got options and Levy still has a chance to back him up before he buggers off is encouraging. I'm not so sure however that he'll let things drift open-endedly as long as some would hope.

yankspurs · Jan 8, 2019

cider spurs said:
Happy New year SSN, Sunday Supplement, Gary Neville and all the other Manc obsessed feckwit pigswillies.

The man...he want 20 years at Spurs.

So please can we have a 48 hr media frenzy shouting from the rooftops in celebration that Poch wants 20 years.

This is news...right.

So let's see the reporting of it akin to the Poch to United jizz festival.

I think a correct translation of yesterday is back me and you can have me as long as you want. Up to Levy now. If Levy finally decides to play with the big boys this month and go for someone Poch wants and offers the wages and agent fees to go with the fee(fat chance), then possibly Poch will sense a change and decide to stay.

You cant tell me things are impossible when Chelsea might sign 3 players this month(albeit 1 will be arriving in June) and we ourselves signed one last January.

Gilzeanking · Jan 8, 2019

Dunno if this has been posted...an inconclusive Sky discussion on this topic with Merse

Tottenhamboy85 · Jan 8, 2019

Gilzeanking said:
Dunno if this has been posted...an inconclusive Sky discussion on this topic with Merse

Just watched it and thought it was a good discussion.

The bird spoke wonderfully about the situation imo

vegassd · Jan 8, 2019

Indisguise said:
I understand what you're saying but he could also have answered the question in any number of ways that didn't address the issue of budget but instead he chose to say "we were bottom of the spending list in Europe". If that's not a prod to the Board about lack of support, I honestly don't know what else to take from it. He then goes on to say that we need to do things differently because we've got stuck in a rut for 5 years. Why say anything other than the team is doing well, I'm really proud of them and squad is strong enough for what I'm trying to achieve at the moment. There's no need to address our being at the bottom of the spending list.

Therein lies the problem mate. I don't mean to sound rude at all, but if the only thing you can glean from what Poch said is that he feels he gets a lack of support from the board then the discussion dies right there.

The fundamental point I'm making is that the people who show up to work at Spurs are not children and they're not amateurs. They don't live week by week - they make plans and strategies. They talk about money, transfers and operations with each other. Poch will face 50-60 press conferences over the course of the season and will be asked 10-15 questions each time. If half of that ends up being repetitive questions about spending and a lack of silverware then what is he meant to say?

We all know that investment is most likely needed if we want to win the PL and CL. The thing that a lot of fans and the media seem to get their knickers twisted about is that is has to happen now. Why can't it be next season? Or the one after that? If the plan is to be a long-term force and to dominate our league then why does it all have to begin yesterday?

That Sky chat with Merson and Hayes was pretty interesting. They talk about how we've done well to bridge the gap but how more is needed to become perennial challengers. It's the same sentiment that Poch has. But let's wait until the summer at least before we all shit ourselves about "the board this" and "the board that".

Indisguise · Jan 8, 2019

vegassd said:
Therein lies the problem mate. I don't mean to sound rude at all, but if the only thing you can glean from what Poch said is that he feels he gets a lack of support from the board then the discussion dies right there.

The fundamental point I'm making is that the people who show up to work at Spurs are not children and they're not amateurs. They don't live week by week - they make plans and strategies. They talk about money, transfers and operations with each other. Poch will face 50-60 press conferences over the course of the season and will be asked 10-15 questions each time. If half of that ends up being repetitive questions about spending and a lack of silverware then what is he meant to say?

We all know that investment is most likely needed if we want to win the PL and CL. The thing that a lot of fans and the media seem to get their knickers twisted about is that is has to happen now. Why can't it be next season? Or the one after that? If the plan is to be a long-term force and to dominate our league then why does it all have to begin yesterday?

That Sky chat with Merson and Hayes was pretty interesting. They talk about how we've done well to bridge the gap but how more is needed to become perennial challengers. It's the same sentiment that Poch has. But let's wait until the summer at least before we all shit ourselves about "the board this" and "the board that".

I never have thought it's all about money. I think it's got to the point though where it's a very big stumbling block; especially when it elicits a response of "we were bottom of the spending list in Europe".

JCRD · Jan 8, 2019

vegassd said:
Therein lies the problem mate. I don't mean to sound rude at all, but if the only thing you can glean from what Poch said is that he feels he gets a lack of support from the board then the discussion dies right there.

The fundamental point I'm making is that the people who show up to work at Spurs are not children and they're not amateurs. They don't live week by week - they make plans and strategies. They talk about money, transfers and operations with each other. Poch will face 50-60 press conferences over the course of the season and will be asked 10-15 questions each time. If half of that ends up being repetitive questions about spending and a lack of silverware then what is he meant to say?

We all know that investment is most likely needed if we want to win the PL and CL. The thing that a lot of fans and the media seem to get their knickers twisted about is that is has to happen now. Why can't it be next season? Or the one after that? If the plan is to be a long-term force and to dominate our league then why does it all have to begin yesterday?

That Sky chat with Merson and Hayes was pretty interesting. They talk about how we've done well to bridge the gap but how more is needed to become perennial challengers. It's the same sentiment that Poch has. But let's wait until the summer at least before we all shit ourselves about "the board this" and "the board that".

I take your entire point and somewhat agree with the majority of it but that bolded bit is interesting... didnt we say that last season?

I personally feel that this summer is a real crossroads for us and for Poch... if Poch leaves (I dont think he will by the way) then we will be in trouble because its a signal that we dont have the cash to sustain and progress from this position. I think Poch has seen what Liverscum has done this season and wants some of that, we started at a higher base than liverscum and Poch started this project before Klopp did. Now we dont know if Liverscum will win the league but i suspect it would grate Poch a great deal.

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