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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Probs the wrong thread but am I right in saying Sessegnon, Sancho, Foden, TOB, Angel Gomes, Hudson-Odoi, Brewster and Griffiths are all from the same age group? Is it just luck or is there a reason why this age group in particular is ridiculously talented? It it linked to anything the FA did?

What BG said. It's the coaching over the last few years coming to fruition combined with general cycle of players. This year group I think have incredible depth in every position, which I've been going on about for the last few years, but what also helps is that they are newer and haven't completely been stifled yet, so there is still hope for them, whereas our current knowledge affects how we view players in hindsight

The 97 age group's first 11, and squad depth in certain areas, could compete with 00 age group, though the lack of a LB is probably what would be the biggest difference in a head to head. I'd be interested to know what @JRSG thinks here. Players like Roberts were tearing up age group football like Sancho was, however, he then went City and everyone knows the rest. People will look at him now and say he was never near Sancho's level., even my view is slightly skewed however I remember him doing very similar things at u17 level and tearing countries and clubs apart. Roberts took apart Chelsea and while his hattrick was fortunate also single handedly took apart our very talent side in the FAYC that year. Similarly players like Onomah, who were top quality get stifled and never played then fans look at them now, then claim they were always overrated.

Realistically the only 00 that is really causing damage at the moment is Sancho because he took the brave step of going abroad, though others are in good positions to continue their progress. However if he stayed at City, only one of Foden, Sancho, or Diaz would really have stood a chance of coming through, and even one isn't guaranteed, then it would be the same ole'. He didn't work hard enough, he thought he had made it etc. We now know what the potential of some of these players are because he and others are going to leagues/clubs that give them a chance if they are good enough. Whereas here, being 'good enough' means nothing despite what fans believe.

You have mentioned Hudson-Odoi who is another I have waxed lyrical about and during preseason, everyone fell into the trap of actually believing Chelsea would change their modus-operandi. He literally tore Bellerin a new one, and can't make their League Cup bench. 2 seasons time, he could be in the same position, and the same things will be said of him as they are said about Roberts, Onomah and the 97 generation we are almost already wasting. Look at Loftus-Cheek was top class, gets no chances called lazy, goes on loan finally to a PL club, goes to the World Cup and is still behind Drinkwater. The belief that managers will play academy players if they are good enough is BS as I've always said, there are so many other factors invovled that will convince a manager not to tale the risk.

I feel after the waste of talent in the 97 age group, (I mean we are still literally doing it with KWP for example) who won 2 international competitions, I do feel there seems to be some sort of change in the waters and clubs/maanger seems to be making more of an effort with this 00 lot, but it's early stages yet. The only positive about this 00 group is there are probably 4 11s you could have made that would have been good enough to win the Euro u17s so the law of averages suggests that some may start dripping through. Players like O'Riley at Fulham who seems to have made his frist team debut, and others may start getting a look in at weaker clubs but who can really predict what goes on.

I guess my point is that yes this group is ridiculously talented but more in depth, as we have had similar age groups to them noticeably the 97s, but the reason that this group probably sticks out is because a) there seems to be more of a focus to bring them through, b) some are actually getting playing time by seeking opportunities abroad so are proving they can walk the walk as well, which previous age groups didn't get to do and c) the opinion of this age group isn't affected by stagnation that older age groups are currently viewed under making them seem even better.

On the depth thing, and what makes this even more annoying is that Man City have 3 other wingers from this age group in Matondo, Poveda and Richards who stand no chance of coming through there but would likely be starting in other age groups. Along with Hudson-Odoi it's just talent being wasted. Also in the players you mentioned above Ampadu was also in this age group but not deemed good enough at u16s. Really is crazy depth
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Our u16s beat Wolves 4-1 yesterday goal and assist from John, 2 assists from Robson, one goal from Mundel, don't know who scored the other 2
 

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,513
8,342
A simple wave to carry on would have been sufficient. It wasn't blatant simulation. He went over because he's tiny and optimistically asked the question. Stupid decision from the ref.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Certainly wasn’t blatant. Looks like he just gets knocked off balance. Put it this way if that went to a panel he’d never get a ban. If there’s any sort of contact which there is you can’t call it simulation. No penalty but not simulation.
 

JRSG

Active Member
Mar 25, 2015
70
117
What BG said. It's the coaching over the last few years coming to fruition combined with general cycle of players. This year group I think have incredible depth in every position, which I've been going on about for the last few years, but what also helps is that they are newer and haven't completely been stifled yet, so there is still hope for them, whereas our current knowledge affects how we view players in hindsight

The 97 age group's first 11, and squad depth in certain areas, could compete with 00 age group, though the lack of a LB is probably what would be the biggest difference in a head to head. I'd be interested to know what @JRSG thinks here. Players like Roberts were tearing up age group football like Sancho was, however, he then went City and everyone knows the rest. People will look at him now and say he was never near Sancho's level., even my view is slightly skewed however I remember him doing very similar things at u17 level and tearing countries and clubs apart. Roberts took apart Chelsea and while his hattrick was fortunate also single handedly took apart our very talent side in the FAYC that year. Similarly players like Onomah, who were top quality get stifled and never played then fans look at them now, then claim they were always overrated.

Realistically the only 00 that is really causing damage at the moment is Sancho because he took the brave step of going abroad, though others are in good positions to continue their progress. However if he stayed at City, only one of Foden, Sancho, or Diaz would really have stood a chance of coming through, and even one isn't guaranteed, then it would be the same ole'. He didn't work hard enough, he thought he had made it etc. We now know what the potential of some of these players are because he and others are going to leagues/clubs that give them a chance if they are good enough. Whereas here, being 'good enough' means nothing despite what fans believe.

You have mentioned Hudson-Odoi who is another I have waxed lyrical about and during preseason, everyone fell into the trap of actually believing Chelsea would change their modus-operandi. He literally tore Bellerin a new one, and can't make their League Cup bench. 2 seasons time, he could be in the same position, and the same things will be said of him as they are said about Roberts, Onomah and the 97 generation we are almost already wasting. Look at Loftus-Cheek was top class, gets no chances called lazy, goes on loan finally to a PL club, goes to the World Cup and is still behind Drinkwater. The belief that managers will play academy players if they are good enough is BS as I've always said, there are so many other factors invovled that will convince a manager not to tale the risk.

I feel after the waste of talent in the 97 age group, (I mean we are still literally doing it with KWP for example) who won 2 international competitions, I do feel there seems to be some sort of change in the waters and clubs/maanger seems to be making more of an effort with this 00 lot, but it's early stages yet. The only positive about this 00 group is there are probably 4 11s you could have made that would have been good enough to win the Euro u17s so the law of averages suggests that some may start dripping through. Players like O'Riley at Fulham who seems to have made his frist team debut, and others may start getting a look in at weaker clubs but who can really predict what goes on.

I guess my point is that yes this group is ridiculously talented but more in depth, as we have had similar age groups to them noticeably the 97s, but the reason that this group probably sticks out is because a) there seems to be more of a focus to bring them through, b) some are actually getting playing time by seeking opportunities abroad so are proving they can walk the walk as well, which previous age groups didn't get to do and c) the opinion of this age group isn't affected by stagnation that older age groups are currently viewed under making them seem even better.

On the depth thing, and what makes this even more annoying is that Man City have 3 other wingers from this age group in Matondo, Poveda and Richards who stand no chance of coming through there but would likely be starting in other age groups. Along with Hudson-Odoi it's just talent being wasted. Also in the players you mentioned above Ampadu was also in this age group but not deemed good enough at u16s. Really is crazy depth

I agree with most of this. An important point you raise is that they're too young to have let us down yet, so we're always going to judge them more favourably than the 97s until we have the benefit of hindsight. One way to look at it is that Oakley-Boothe's 2018/19 season is the equivalent of Onomah's 15/16 season. Limited minutes, but Onomah made 19 appearances for Spurs that year, TOB will be lucky to get 1. Solanke was out playing regular football in the Eredivisie at the same age. The likes of Izzy Brown were real prospects back then. It's very easy to write players off too quickly + to wave the new generation in and laud them as massive upgrades.

That being said, the English 2000s are very special and there's loads of depth. Especially when we consider that the 'late bloomer' or undiscovered guys haven't appeared yet. Tammy Abraham, Tomori, Clarke-Salter, Walker-Peters, James Maddison, Calvert-Lewin, Demarai Gray, Wan-Bissaka, Ezri Konsa, Ade Lookman, Tuanzebe, Joe Worrall, Ronaldo Vieira, Eddie Nketiah, Harvey Barnes, Ovie Ejaria have all been capped in the current U21 cycle and none of them played for the England U17s. Some of them didn't feature till they were U20s. So there will be newer 2000 names that come through, probably this season and next to challenge for U20 + U21 spots next season.
 
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IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Whilst I think it was a harsh yellow, he does appeal for it, he looks at the ref and holds his arms out.

Ye, you're right. I think he appealed in that 9 times out of 10 every player who goes down in the box pen or not always holds out their hands to ask the question, but I don't think he went looking for it. He went down easily because he is small, not because he dived imo. Once he's on the floor they're always going to hold out their arms instinctively. Rarely you get an incident like Lucas who is brought down in the box, and they just get up and carry on running around without looking at the ref.

Take the Spurs blinkers off lads ffs!

Hardly. Danny Rose dived at the weekend, Edwards was pushed off the ball and fell. Probably not enough to be a pen, doesn't make it a dive

Anyway from a feyenoordfan who has an interest in English football

From the live blog AD Sportwereld:
https://www.ad.nl/nederlands-voetba...l-terwijl-vvv-zoekt-naar-een-gaatje~a498f51f/
70'
Edwards smaakmaker

Als Marcus Edwards de bal krijgt, schuift het publiek in Kralingen naar het puntje van de stoel. De 19-jarige Engelsman is ontzettend behendig. Zijn dribbels bezorgen VVV niet voor het eerst vanavond problemen. Hij zal echter zo plaatsmaken voor Mounir El Hamdaoui.

70 '
Edwards flavouring player

When Marcus Edwards gets the ball, the fans in Kralingen move to the tip of their seats. The 19-year-old Englishman is incredibly dextrous and agile. It's not for the first time his dribbles provide VVV with problems. He will, however, make way for Mounir El Hamdaoui.
 
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IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
I agree with most of this. An important point you raise is that they're too young to have let us down yet, so we're always going to judge them more favourably than the 97s until we have the benefit of hindsight. One way to look at it is that Oakley-Boothe's 2018/19 season is the equivalent of Onomah's 15/16 season. Limited minutes, but Onomah made 19 appearances for Spurs that year, TOB will be lucky to get 1. Solanke was out playing regular football in the Eredivisie at the same age. The likes of Izzy Brown were real prospects back then. It's very easy to write players off too quickly + to wave the new generation in and laud them as massive upgrades.

That being said, the English 2000s are very special and there's loads of depth. Especially when we consider that the 'late bloomer' or undiscovered guys haven't appeared yet. Tammy Abraham, Tomori, Clarke-Salter, Walker-Peters, James Maddison, Calvert-Lewin, Demarai Gray, Wan-Bissaka, Ezri Konsa, Ade Lookman, Tuanzebe, Joe Worrall, Ronaldo Vieira, Eddie Nketiah, Harvey Barnes, Ovie Ejaria have all been capped in the current U21 cycle and none of them played for the England U17s. Some of them didn't feature till they were U20s. So there will be newer 2000 names that come through, probably this season and next to challenge for U20 + U21 spots next season.

Unless I've misread when you say 'benefit of hindsight' are you saying that you think a lot of the 97s were overrated and weren't good enough looking at how their careers have gone now? As I always think they were misused and poorly handled.

Re: Onomah and TOB I feel that TOB though he has the talent hasn't earned the minutes that Onomah did. Ironically though it's due to those minutes in random positions with ad hoc minutes that has reflected so badly on Onomah. The 97s were doing well, as you say, but as usual it goes belly up in terms of development once they hit 20 and so now the 00s are the ones looking good.

The 00 strength in depth will be even more ridiculous. If the main bunch of players can all gradually progress up until the age of 21, then we will start to see the kids in the EFL teams, who aren't on the radar now, start to get minutes for the clubs in the lower leagues, like Bogle, due to the better pathway. The good things is it will strengthen the age group, the sad thing we will probably see them start to take off a lot of the big talents, and lament how some have stalled.
 
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JRSG

Active Member
Mar 25, 2015
70
117
nah, I mean more that it's easier to crap on them in hindsight and claim they weren't as good as the 2000s when we've seen them fall off etc. Hindsight is probably the wrong way of phrasing it, maybe I mean that the 2000s have the benefit of no hinsight...yet.
 

mark87

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2004
36,031
114,062
So with the injuries to the first team, it looks like one of our youth players will make up the numbers for the bench. Who does everyone think or want it to be?
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,143
15,550
So with the injuries to the first team, it looks like one of our youth players will make up the numbers for the bench. Who does everyone think or want it to be?
Skipp was apparently training with the team today and would make a fair amount of sense. Expect whoever it is is pretty unlikely to get on the pitch anyway
 
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